--- Log opened Sat Dec 01 00:00:22 2012
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08:52 #navit: < MatthiasM1> good morning everybody :)
08:53 #navit: < MatthiasM1> Knows anybody who is admin of twitter @navit_project?
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09:06 #navit: < MatthiasM1> morning woglinde :)
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09:11 #navit: < MatthiasM1> hi @_rd
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09:32 #navit: <@KaZeR> hi MatthiasM1
09:32 #navit: < MatthiasM1> ok so first I'm waiting for my wiki reg mail
09:32 #navit: < MatthiasM1> you are admin?
09:33 #navit: <@KaZeR> i'm not sure i have access to navit's twitter account. Number6 is the guy
09:34 #navit: < MatthiasM1> there was the question why twitter doesn't publish the great SVN changes as in Wiki Mainpage? But thats a question for @number6 ;)
09:35 #navit: < MatthiasM1> another big question is about an idea to refactor NAVIT to match more usability aspects and make better use of OSM features
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09:36 #navit: <@KaZeR> i guess an svn->twitter bot would be easy to write, but would followers be really interested in bot tweets?
09:36 #navit: <@KaZeR> refactor? UI, or whole code?
09:37 #navit: < MatthiasM1> currently it just publishs THAT something happened on SVN :(
09:38 #navit: < MatthiasM1> no idea, but it's currently very hard to get up to date with navit developments. Maybe some easy weekly blog summarising the last week changes would be an good idea?
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09:40 #navit: < MatthiasM1> maybe this will point out the basic idea: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:!i!/NAVIT2
09:40 #navit: < MatthiasM1> but please, this is just a raw sketch, and not binding
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10:08 #navit: < MatthiasM1> BRB
10:10 #navit: < _rd> Hi MatthiasM1 :-)
10:11 #navit: < MatthiasM1> sry, my supertuxcart crashed and blewed Xorg away :/
10:11 #navit: < MatthiasM1> is @_rd a dev?
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10:26 #navit: < MatthiasM1> BTW I tried to do some sketch to look at NAVIT from another "aspect" point of view:
10:26 #navit: < MatthiasM1> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:NAVIT_aspects.svg
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10:41 #navit:  * MatthiasM1 currently views NAVIT code history through gource
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11:21 #navit: < MatthiasM1> hi udovdh
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11:38 #navit: < udovdh> yo
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12:56 #navit: < alphatango> hello  im a newbie, i managed to add more attributes for pois when clicking on "show pois attributes", modifing osm.c and attr_def.h  this is the osm.c.patch  http://pastebin.com/QbAKzFd4  and this is the attr_def.h.patch  http://pastebin.com/DEWqZ923  in short, this patch will add more poi info like: opening_hours,capacity,cuisine,stars(used in hotels),and operator as the latest version of navit only include address, phone, fax an
12:57 #navit: < alphatango> some of my implementations seems to be nearly supported by navit, as i saw in osm.c the tag "addr:email", that i fixed with the current osm tag "email"  also some of the tags i added to be displaied, were already in attr_def.h like: ATTR(description) and ATTR(url)  also ATTR(entry_fee) and ATTR(open_hours) were already in,  but i changed in ATTR(fee) [more generic fee for an amenity, not only entrance] and in ATTR(opening_hours) [m
12:58 #navit: < alphatango> NOTE:  adding ATTR(operator) in attr_def.h, give the word operator in red color, using gedit.  as a newbie in C language, i dont know if this is a bug/problem and how to avoid this, so i used ATTR(operated_by) to solve.  by the way, i compiled and it worked.  navit and maptool worked fine with this new features, the only problem is about  fuel:lpg=yes/no or fee=yes/no....it appears fee=1 when yes and fee=0 when no...any solutions? 
13:12 #navit: < MatthiasM1> FYI I created an animation of SVN acitivty with the help of Gource for Navit: http://ikaria.informatik.uni-rostock.de/mm337/navit/navit%20svn%20history.webm
13:14 #navit: < MatthiasM1> Number6: do we have an official youtube/vimeo account?
13:14 #navit: < MatthiasM1> alphatango: sorry I can't help you, as I'm a newbie, too :(
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13:28 #navit: < _rd> MatthiasM1, the gource looks very nice, I was not aware that tools exist for that :-)
13:29 #navit: < _rd> To answer your previous questions, I am not a developer, I just build the n900 packages from time to time.
13:30 #navit: < MatthiasM1> thanks _rd
13:30 #navit: < MatthiasM1> "just building" sounds more simple, as it its :)
13:31 #navit: < MatthiasM1> BTW do you use an build server?
13:33 #navit: < MatthiasM1> or does everybody build it's own packages per platform?
13:38 #navit: < _rd> indeed building for the n900 is not trivial. I get some insight, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38800&page=64
13:39 #navit: < MatthiasM1> cool :)
13:39 #navit: < _rd> ...and check the number of postings in this thread.
13:40 #navit: < MatthiasM1> Yes, I tried time ago to motivate people to port NAVIT to openpandora, but didn't worked :(
13:40 #navit: < _rd> but to answer your question, for the n900 neither the n900 build server nor the navit build server is used.
13:40 #navit: < MatthiasM1> so we have a build server in general?
13:41 #navit: < _rd> Even worse, when the autotools build support will be removed from navit, I am pretty pessimistic, that there will be updated navit packages for the n900.
13:41 #navit: < MatthiasM1> why?
13:41 #navit: < _rd> I am not entirely sure, but for the n8x0 there are were daily builds, I think.
13:42 #navit: < _rd> Adding support for cmake is not trivial for the n900 package. I tried once and failed.
13:42 #navit: < MatthiasM1> Oh ok so the usual n900 toolchain uses only autotools? I see
13:43 #navit: < _rd> Do not remember exactly what issue I faced, but I think I tried to use the latest debian package as starting point.
13:43 #navit: < _rd> This did not compile.
13:43 #navit: < MatthiasM1> Using something like Hudson server would be great :)
13:44 #navit: < _rd> We are far away from that for the n900...but that is not navit's fault, it is rather an issue of an outdated navit toolchain.
13:45 #navit: < MatthiasM1> yes, but that are problems of other open source projects, as well ;)
15:22 #navit: < MatthiasM1> Just an short idea on how we might consider userstorys as tool to get design goals: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:!i!/NAVIT2/User_story_install
17:24 #navit: < Number6> MatthiasM1: I don't think so
17:24 #navit: < Number6> MatthiasM1: (About the youtube account)
17:24 #navit: < MatthiasM1> ok, any interest to start one?
17:25 #navit: < MatthiasM1> would be cool for promotion
17:25 #navit: < MatthiasM1> do you control the twitter account @navit_project ?
17:26 #navit: < Number6> Yes.
17:26 #navit: < Number6> It's just an RSS feed for now, with the occasional post by me. Not too sure if I gave cp15 the login details as well
17:27 #navit: < MatthiasM1> is it maintained? So you react on DMs etc?
17:27 #navit: < Number6> Yeah, it's maintained. I haven't gotten any DMs in a long time
17:28 #navit: < MatthiasM1> ok
17:30 #navit: < MatthiasM1> Maybe we can change from SVN RSS back to manual? I like to get the news or the SVN acities on twitter http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Main_Page
17:31 #navit: < MatthiasM1> maybe with a bot or something?
17:33 #navit: < Number6> MatthiasM1: On Twitter or the wiki?
17:37 #navit: < MatthiasM1> Wiki -> Twitter
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17:48 #navit: < MatthiasM1> hi tryagain
17:48 #navit: < tryagain> hi
18:08 #navit: < tryagain> alphatango your patch looks nice. Can you please repost your considerations to trac.navit-project.org so we can return to it latter. I think it might be included in mainstream but we should test if it doesnt makes world binfile grow too much.
18:09 #navit: < tryagain> As for fee:1, I think we'll fix it together with applying your patch.
18:12 #navit: < tryagain> MatthiasM1 currently we have nightly builds on the central server. Currently we have no resources to build each commit with Hudson.
18:12 #navit: < MatthiasM1> ressources means here servers?
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18:12 #navit: < MatthiasM1> hi xenos1984
18:12 #navit: < xenos1984> hi MatthiasM1 ;)
18:12 #navit: < tryagain> yes servers
18:14 #navit: < MatthiasM1> hmmm maybe we can get one by sponsors? But who can do the administration?
18:14 #navit: < tryagain> Currently cp15 does that.
18:17 #navit: < tryagain> I think woglinde few months ago looked for opportunity to run Hudson and faced with resource problem.
18:17 #navit: < MatthiasM1> wow cp15 does that, too? OO
18:17 #navit: < tryagain> btw we have nice build statistics
18:17 #navit: < MatthiasM1> really?
18:18 #navit: < tryagain> cp15 does most of things today
18:18 #navit: < tryagain> http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/stats.html
18:18 #navit: < MatthiasM1> interesting, so it's an centralized build environment?
18:19 #navit:  * xenos1984 triggers rebuilding the TomTom port (which is not in the automated build chain, as far as i remember)
18:19 #navit: < tryagain> yes
18:20 #navit: < tryagain> well I don't sure what the log is http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/tomtom/svn/navit-svn-5278.ok and how it's related to xenos1984 work...
18:21 #navit: < xenos1984> oh, looks like cp15 (i guess it was him) included the tomtom build, great!
18:22 #navit: < tryagain> then you can try downloading a package and see if it is
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18:25 #navit: < tryagain> btw I think tomtom folder was forever at the place. First build log in http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/tomtom/svn/ is from June,2011
18:25 #navit: < tryagain> but that may be for a different tomtom?
18:25 #navit: < MatthiasM1> I made a SVN visualisation with GOURCE today: http://ikaria.informatik.uni-rostock.de/mm337/navit/navit%20svn%20history.webm (30MB)
18:26 #navit: < MatthiasM1> my approach to get to know you :D
18:26 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... looks slightly different from my build...
18:29 #navit: < xenos1984> unfortunately i don't have a tomtom device here right now to test it
18:29 #navit: < MatthiasM1> are they still in Germany?
18:31 #navit: < xenos1984> yes
18:31 #navit: < xenos1984> actually i used my father's tomtom for testing ;)
18:32 #navit: < MatthiasM1> "Son, there is now a pengiun voice in my PNA!" xD
18:33 #navit: < xenos1984> well, in fact it was a new boot screen with navit and OSM logos... but... you got it ;)
18:33 #navit: < MatthiasM1> hehe
18:34 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... i wonder whether this automated tomtom svn build works - i guess one needs to build and install quite a number of additional libraries to get it working
18:35 #navit: < xenos1984> at least this is what i had to do when i first ported navit to tomtom
18:36 #navit: < xenos1984> http://www.navit-project.org/~xenos1984/release/ << these packages include all these libraries
18:37 #navit: < MatthiasM1> can anybody plz link the build stats at the wiki mainpage or wiki index
18:37 #navit: < MatthiasM1> ?
18:37 #navit: < xenos1984> oh, and btw, the automated tomtom build does not have any graphics output drivers except the "null" device
18:37 #navit: < xenos1984> so using it is no fun
18:38 #navit: < xenos1984> MatthiasM1: i can link it
18:38 #navit: < MatthiasM1> thanks :)
18:39 #navit: < tryagain> xenos1984 Do you include libraries by statically linking to them? If you describe what you're doing to make your builds, I think we can make these builds automatically. Unless we hit some licensing issue...
18:39 #navit: < tryagain> btw team activity can be found at https://www.ohloh.net/p/navit
18:40 #navit: < MatthiasM1> thats what I'm looking for :)
18:40 #navit: < xenos1984> tryagain: i just linked them dynamically and just included the .so files in my package, but one could certainly link them statically
18:41 #navit: < xenos1984> actually i already have a build script on the navit server (this is what i just triggered a few minutes ago) and a fairly complete documentation of the build process in the wiki:
18:41 #navit: < xenos1984> http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Navit_on_TomTom
18:43 #navit:  * xenos1984 wonders where the best place for a link from the wiki to the stats might be
18:44 #navit: < MatthiasM1> How about Developer Zone or at the contributors page?
18:45 #navit: < xenos1984> either that or under "Bleeding edge" in the "Download" box?
18:45 #navit: < xenos1984> after all, the build stats are for exactly these bleeding edge builds
18:45 #navit: < MatthiasM1> the ohloh link is already at the contributors page, maybe this is the right place?
18:46 #navit: < MatthiasM1> or better place?
18:47 #navit: < xenos1984> i'm not sure - build stats don't really say something about contributors
18:47 #navit: < tryagain> if you have automated script to fire then why do you say it reauires a lot of manual work? And why it's not included in nightly build?
18:48 #navit: < xenos1984> it did require a lot of manual work before i could write this script ;)
18:48 #navit: < tryagain> build stats is definitely not about contributors. I vote for the Bleeding edge.
18:49 #navit: < MatthiasM1> yeah why not?
18:49 #navit: < xenos1984> i already talked to cp15 and i think he wanted to include it into the nightly builds
18:49 #navit: < xenos1984> well, i could just add a cron job...
18:50 #navit: < xenos1984> or would it be better if someone takes care of this who has access to the nightly build system that is used for the other platforms?
18:50 #navit: < xenos1984> i can of course give the script to anyone who could do this :)
18:53 #navit: < MatthiasM1> BTW has anybody informations about this police mod for the Brandenburg Cops?
18:56 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... apparently the wiki expects me to fill a captcha which i don't see...
18:57 #navit: < xenos1984> got it ;)
18:57 #navit: < xenos1984> http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Main_Page << now it's in the Downloads box
18:57 #navit: < MatthiasM1> yeaaaha :)
18:59 #navit: < MatthiasM1> would be nice, if I had some peoples, that would call me, who is responsible for what aspects at NAVIT http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:NAVIT_aspects.svg
19:01 #navit: < tryagain> I think some time ago I had successfully been changing build scripts. Probably I could add it or patch existing script.
19:04 #navit: < xenos1984> here's my build script: http://pastebin.com/jXTrHcVy
19:05 #navit: < xenos1984> actually it relies on quite a number of prerequisities already being built... and a tomtom toolchain...
19:05 #navit: < xenos1984> so these prerequisities are what i meant by "manual work" i did before setting up this script
19:06 #navit: < xenos1984> but it shouldn't be too difficult to to this within the automated navit build environment as well
19:06 #navit: < xenos1984> if i can help or provide more information, just let me know
19:08 #navit: < MatthiasM1> so TT crosscompiler is bundled within your system?
19:09 #navit: < xenos1984> no, but it can be downloaded from tomtom's website
19:10 #navit: < MatthiasM1> .../cross/gcc-* is not for crosscompiling?
19:11 #navit: < MatthiasM1> So for pandora they offer an preapared VM, thats why I'm asking, if TT is compiled within  your original workstation?
19:11 #navit: < xenos1984> it is for cross compiling, yes, but i had to download and install it manually
19:14 #navit: < MatthiasM1> what CPU architecture?
19:16 #navit: < xenos1984> ARM...something, ARM9 i think
19:28 #navit: < xenos1984> btw, i just looked at navit translations - is it true that launchpad is not used for that anymore? so if one wants to contribute a translation, one should edit the .po files?
19:33 #navit: < tryagain> looks like that...
19:33 #navit: < MatthiasM1> seems so. One of the aspects where I would say, that you can activate externals?
19:35 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... i see...
19:38 #navit: < MatthiasM1> Maybe outsourcing the iconsets/map styles/....  will attract new people?
19:42 #navit: < xenos1984> i think currently there is only one icon set (at least i don't know of alternative ones)
19:42 #navit: < xenos1984> but this indeed sounds like a good idea
19:43 #navit: < xenos1984> (well, it would be even better if navit used a standardized map style format before outsourcing it)
19:43 #navit: < MatthiasM1> yes there is a strange mix of .svg, .xbm, .png and they are shared with all styles which make it (IMHO) pretty hard for designers :(
19:46 #navit: < tryagain> we use svg as primary source format. xbm is deprecated. I think we have no png's in source tree. But png's are built from svgs for many platforms which do not support svg.
19:47 #navit: < MatthiasM1> makes sense, but isn't reflected in documentation (and maybe SVN) from my point of view
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20:44 #navit: < tryagain> We really need somebody to ask questions and reflect answers in doc.
20:44 -!- MatthiasM1 is now known as MatthiasM_AFK
20:44 #navit: < MatthiasM_AFK> will give the wiki cleanup job a try :)
20:46 #navit: < MatthiasM_AFK> it's just a smal wiki :)
21:26 #navit: < MatthiasM_AFK> cya
21:26 #navit: < xenos1984> cu, MatthiasM_AFK
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22:00 #navit: < tryagain_> xenos1984 We have a builtin copy of glib in source tree for those platforms not having it. Why do you compile your own glib for tomtom build?
22:02 #navit: < xenos1984> tryagain_: oh, actually i didn't even know that it exists in the navit source... well, in this case of course i don't need to compile my own ;)
22:02 #navit: < xenos1984> did this already exist in early 2010? that was the time i built the first port
22:05 #navit: < tryagain_> And there are different compile options described for different tomtoms (tslib). So we need actually  two builds?
22:06 #navit: < xenos1984> let me see...
22:06 #navit: < xenos1984> ah, actually ts.conf holds runtime options, not compile options
22:08 #navit: < xenos1984> i think one build should be sufficient, offering the option for the new tomtom versions - the old one is only for older (software) versions, and if someone really needs it, one can change it in the config file later
22:08 #navit: < tryagain_> ok, got it
22:22 #navit: < tryagain_> hm you describe how to compile libjpeg and do not describe how to put it on tomtom. I'm unsure if navit really depends on it...
22:24 #navit: < xenos1984> oh, indeed... i didn't notice that...
22:27 #navit: < xenos1984> i guess for some reason navit complained about missing libjpeg at some point of porting it, so i just included it in the build and didn't really care later on
22:29 #navit: < tryagain_> we also have zlib and libpng copies http://navit.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/navit/trunk/navit/navit/support/
22:30 #navit: < xenos1984> ah, that's great... i wonder why i never noticed that... i guess that makes the build process much simpler than my original attempt...
22:32 #navit: < tryagain_> sadly we have no real device handy to test if switching to local copies won't harm,,,
22:34 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... i don't have one here, either...
23:04 #navit: < tryagain_> libz, libjpeg, libpng seem to be dependencies of libsdl_image so we can't skip them that easy...
23:05 #navit: < xenos1984> ah, yes, i remember - that was the reason i included them
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--- Log closed Sun Dec 02 00:00:22 2012