--- Log opened Sat Mar 09 00:00:14 2013
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12:11 #navit: < Mineque> Hi
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14:05 #navit: < Usul1> hi
14:06 #navit: < Usul1> I grabbed all new icons together for the new set
14:06 #navit: < Usul1> as they are only monocrome, the question is, if I should do coloring, or if we should do it with an mechanism?
14:07 #navit: < xenos1984> hi Usul1
14:07 #navit: < Usul1> This would make it very easy, to keep a certain coloring e.g. tourism is brown etc?
14:07 #navit: < xenos1984> i think setting the colors "by hand" for each icon / hardcoding them into each icon is not very useful
14:08 #navit: < Usul1> +1
14:08 #navit: < xenos1984> defining colors for icon categories and applying these colors at build time would be better
14:08 #navit: < Usul1> do you suggest an script or embedding it with a map style?
14:09 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... map styles are applied at run time, png icons are built at build time
14:09 #navit: < Usul1> exactly this is my problem ;)
14:09 #navit: < xenos1984> i would prefer it in a map style, but that won't work
14:10 #navit: < Usul1> well IF we decide to let it be applied later on, we can choose the point by our own
14:10 #navit: < xenos1984> so there should be some default colors in a build script, and on those platforms where svg graphics are used (as i do on my laptop), one could also use flexible colors
14:12 #navit: < Usul1> ok,so lets consider it, that there will be an script, who applies color to the icons?
14:16 #navit: < xenos1984> yes, i think for now that's the best
14:17 #navit: < Usul1> you once said, that there is already such a script to render the .SVGs?
14:17 #navit: < xenos1984> yes, this is how the current svg to png conversion works
14:17 #navit: < xenos1984> actually i'm just playing around with svg to png conversion
14:18 #navit: < Usul1> great :)
14:18 #navit: < Usul1> I would need an functionality, that can remove the very last element in z-order (to remove the background)
14:18 #navit: < xenos1984> there are several different programs that can do that, and by default navit uses rsvg-convert on my system - with rather ugly results ;)
14:19 #navit: < xenos1984> my preferred converter is batik's rasterizer, which i have on my system, but which is not implemented in navit's svg to png script... maybe one can change this (but i have no idea how to tell cmake to use this)
14:20 #navit: < Usul1> ehhh cmake :(
14:20 #navit: < xenos1984> yes, cmake... :/
14:20 #navit: < Usul1> how about python :D
14:21 #navit: < xenos1984> well, we shouldn't mix too many script languages ;) and cmake is already in use and the new build system for navit
14:22 #navit: < Usul1> which I accept of course O:-)
14:22 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... i have no idea how to remove the background by z-order...
14:23 #navit: < Usul1> I can do it manually of course, but we should discuss this fisrt, before making unreversible actions ;)
14:23 #navit: < xenos1984> i looked at the svg source of the icons you looked up and they look a bit... messy to me - which is hidden to the end user, of course, but makes automated processing a bit hard
14:23 #navit: < Usul1> another idea is to create just an minimal default style, that combines what needs to be presented to car drivers and bikers, ... as well
14:24 #navit: < Usul1> messy in which context?
14:24 #navit: < Usul1> plain XML?
14:25 #navit: < xenos1984> lots of "unneeded" stuff - inkscape specific xml tags, complicated coloring...
14:25 #navit: < xenos1984> if i was drawing the icons from scratch instead of using a pre-made icon set, i would use css to color the icons
14:26 #navit: < Usul1> AFAIK inkscape can export to plain SVG as well
14:26 #navit: < xenos1984> yes, it can
14:26 #navit: < Usul1> come on, they are artists, not coders ;)
14:26 #navit: < xenos1984> i guess that's the problem :P
14:26 #navit: < xenos1984> of course, the icons look great, no doubt
14:27 #navit: < xenos1984> but the source is a bit hard to process
14:27 #navit: < Usul1> sure, but we just want to rasterize it?
14:27 #navit: < xenos1984> ...and re-color, and remove the background...?
14:28 #navit:  * Usul1 fires up MS paint :P
14:28 #navit: < xenos1984> have fun ;) my favourite graphics program is a text editor :P
14:29 #navit: < Usul1> I guess we both are definitly not designers ;)
14:29 #navit: < xenos1984> indeed ;)
14:29 #navit: < xenos1984> dinner is coming
14:30 #navit: < xenos1984> brb
14:41 #navit:  * Usul1 takes an cappuchino
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15:59 #navit: < xenos1984> interesting... with cmake, only one size of png icons is created... with autotools it used to be different sizes... so that explains why my navigation arrows look so ugly now ;)
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17:12 #navit: < jan__> hi
17:29 #navit: < xenos1984> hi jan
17:32 #navit: < jan__> wenn man beim TomTom den Ein-/Ausschalter drückt, geht der TomTom dann auf Standby? Oder ist das eher was wie Suspend to Disk?
17:32 #navit: < jan__> wieso hab ich denn so einen ___ am Ende?
17:33 #navit: < xenos1984> so weit ich weiß, ist das (zumindest beim GO 910) eher suspend to disk - mit den anderen kenne ich mich nicht aus
17:34 #navit: < xenos1984> die __ kommen vermutlich von einem login-problem mit deinem nick
17:34 #navit: < xenos1984> der nick ist schon vergeben
17:49 #navit: < jan__> ah, neulich war er es wohl noch nicht
17:49 #navit: < jan__> egal
17:49 #navit: < jan__> ich denke mal, daß die anderen TomTom ähnlich funktionieren. Nur die ganz neue Generation scheint mehr abgeschottet zu sein, daß nur noch die TomTom-eigene App läuft
17:51 #navit: < jan__> TomTom möchte halt keine anderen Apps da laufen lassen. Wobei ich denke, daß die mobilen Navis dank den Smartphones, OpenStreetmap und auch den mittlerweile erschwinglichen fest-einbau-Navis eher nicht mehr so oft verkauft werden
17:51 #navit: < jan__> wobei mein One XL mal richtig teuer war, als er neu war.
17:51 #navit: < jan__> vielleicht teste ich navit morgen mal im Auto mit dem TomTom
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17:53 #navit: < xenos1984> ja, tomtom macht es einem schon nicht so leicht... wobei man eben immer noch den vorteil hat, dass es letztlich linux-boxen sind, und die müssen ja zu einem gewissen maß offen sein
17:53 #navit: < woglinde> xenos ja gab damals gpl klagen
17:53 #navit: < woglinde> wurde aussergerichtlich geklaert
17:53 #navit: < jan__> ja, da gab es in der Vergangenheit was
17:53 #navit: < jan__> ja, zu langsam..
17:54 #navit: < woglinde> und die beiden jungs die sich sich das angeschaut haben wurden dann von tomtom eingestellt
17:54 #navit: < xenos1984> so kann man sowas natürlich auch lösen...
17:54 #navit: < woglinde> lustiger weise hat tomtom in berlin immer ein stellenangebot fuer routing algorythmen
17:55 #navit: <@cp15> Nicht eingestellt, aber die haben einen recht attraktiven Consulting-Vertrag bekommen und das dazu benutzt, ihre eigene Firma aufzumachen: http://www.maintech.de/
17:56 #navit: < xenos1984> sind das nicht auch die von opentom?
17:56 #navit: <@cp15> Genau
17:56 #navit: < jan__> ich will jetzt keine Diskussion open vs closed anstoßen. Aber Firmen könnten sich ja von opensource "inspirieren" lassen..
17:57 #navit: < xenos1984> ah... apropos, opentom wollte ich mir eh mal ansehen und mal schauen, ob man dadurch etwas mehr über die tomtom-hardware lernen kann
17:57 #navit: < xenos1984> und vielleicht navit drauf portieren
17:58 #navit: < woglinde> cp15 ah okay
17:59 #navit: < woglinde> jan__ routing zeugs ist eigentlich oft universitäre forschung und selten patentiert
17:59 #navit: < jan__> @cp15 darf ich mal ganz leise und freundlich fragen, wann eine neue Version der iOS-Navit-Software kommt?
17:59 #navit: < jan__> naja, man muß es halt noch umsetzen
18:01 #navit: < jan__> und in navit ist ja ein solches Stück Software drin. Da TomTom ja immer Verbesserungen einbaut und natürlich daran interessiert ist, es noch besser zu machen, könnten sie sich ja dort inspirieren lassen
18:01 #navit: < jan__> Große Firmen können ja auf die Software teilweise Patente erstellen lassen.. wäre dann doof für die Open Source-Gemeinde
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18:45 #navit: < Usul1> xenos1984: This is interesting concerning the icon processing https://github.com/twain47/Open-SVG-Map-Icons/tree/master/tools
18:46 #navit: < xenos1984> Usul1: yes, i looked into that already... ugly tools with ugly hacks, to make pretty icons out of ugly data ;) well, it works and the output looks nice...
18:46 #navit: < xenos1984> designers vs. programmers, again...
18:47 #navit: < Usul1> well, if open source had ever been perfect...
18:47 #navit: < xenos1984> but at least it's about constant improving ;)
18:48 #navit: < Usul1> continuus integration :D
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19:51 #navit: < Usul1> n8
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 10 00:00:14 2013