--- Log opened Tue Sep 05 00:00:18 2017 00:04 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@22-164-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:34 -!- noradtux [~noradtux@port-35415.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:55 -!- noradtux [~noradtux@port-7755.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #navit 05:22 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@2001:bb8:2002:200:6651:6ff:fe53:a120] has joined #navit 14:08 -!- pmckinley [~peter@88-110-198-197.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #navit 14:22 -!- pmckinley [~peter@88-110-198-197.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has left #navit [] 15:24 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@2001:bb8:2002:200:6651:6ff:fe53:a120] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:20 #navit: <@KaZeR> hi there 16:42 #navit: < ilovekiruna> hi 16:43 #navit: < ilovekiruna> Kazer: can you tell me sth about a test routing routine? 16:43 #navit: < ilovekiruna> was discussing yesterday with zintor about it when talking on the Sailfish port 16:45 #navit: <@KaZeR> sure, what do you need to know? 16:58 #navit: < ilovekiruna> we were wondering about how to test and compare my two Sailfish devices 16:59 #navit: < ilovekiruna> I have now the Jolla 1 and the Intex Aqua Fish 17:01 #navit: <@KaZeR> do you mean, performance wise? like how much time it takes to generate a given route? 17:01 #navit: <@KaZeR> i did not know about the intex aqua fish. interesting device 17:01 #navit: < ilovekiruna> that could be sth interesting, but for me, would be also interesting to compare the actual navigation while driving 17:02 #navit: <@KaZeR> ha! well, to test while driving, the only way is to drive :) 17:02 #navit: <@KaZeR> otherwise if you want to compare responsiveness, etc, you could hook up both device to the same fake gps source and set the same destination 17:03 #navit: < ilovekiruna> how could i connect gps sources to cell phones? 17:03 #navit: < ilovekiruna> hv no clue 17:03 #navit: <@KaZeR> we could maybe provide a gpsd server on our of our machines that would replay a bunch of gps logs 17:03 #navit: < ilovekiruna> that could be interesting 17:03 #navit: < ilovekiruna> btw: could we also do that on the amazon service? 17:04 #navit: <@KaZeR> by default on your cell phone we use the local gps source, but we could probably get gpsd to run there. We use to have it for openmoko for example 17:04 #navit: <@KaZeR> yes that should work for amazon test farm too, as long as we get gpsd to compile, or find another way to read a remote signal. UDP could be a good solution maybe 17:05 #navit: < ilovekiruna> because i think apart from gui, this issue is most important for users 17:06 #navit: <@KaZeR> which issue? 17:06 #navit: < ilovekiruna> that routing works properly ;-) 17:06 #navit: < ilovekiruna> one nice test case could be reaction to outage of gps signal 17:07 #navit: < ilovekiruna> or do u expect all phones reacting the same? 17:09 #navit: <@KaZeR> well we do have some routing QA : http://navit-gps.github.io/routing-qa/ 17:09 #navit: <@KaZeR> i just merged the PR to upgrade to CI v2, and it should make it easier to test the UI and routing related stuffs 17:10 #navit: <@KaZeR> regarding the reaction to the loss of gps signal, what would you like to get? 17:11 #navit: < ilovekiruna> at least one thing 17:11 #navit: < ilovekiruna> no crash :-p 17:11 #navit: < ilovekiruna> not sure if a crash occurs, though 17:12 #navit: <@KaZeR> for a gps signal loss, i don't think that it crashes :) 17:19 #navit: < ilovekiruna> ok :) 17:20 #navit: < ilovekiruna> what about if it would get errornous signals? 17:25 #navit: <@KaZeR> well your position could jump from one place to another. We already have the "stick to road" feature that tries to place you on the closest road, and we also have the cdf (cumulative displacement filter) that should mitigate the issue 17:31 #navit: < ilovekiruna> cool 17:31 #navit: < ilovekiruna> very nice to hear :) 17:32 #navit: < ilovekiruna> the only reason why i wanted to test things offline is, driving around with 3 phones with navit slowly gets too distracting ;-) 17:32 #navit: < ilovekiruna> will later on, try to give both of them a gpsd source and test in parallel 17:32 #navit: < ilovekiruna> just to get some performance comparison 17:33 #navit: <@KaZeR> great. Also, logging your route when driving is sometimes useful to replay it later, and even on multiple devices :) 17:47 #navit: < jkoan> hi kazer and ilovekiruna 17:47 #navit: < jkoan> KaZeR: are you rememer that i talked about rds and tmc for traffic relevant informations 17:47 #navit: < jkoan> *? 17:48 #navit: < ilovekiruna> just in the next weeks not planning any longer trips to get good data :( 17:48 #navit: < ilovekiruna> hi jkoan 17:49 #navit: <@KaZeR> jkoan: yes 17:50 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: no worries, there are other ways to generate routes if you need to. Someone else from the channel might even be able to record a route for you :) 17:51 #navit: < ilovekiruna> would be great :) 17:51 #navit: * KaZeR looks at jkoan 17:51 #navit: <@KaZeR> :) 17:52 #navit: < jkoan> i just ordered a fm module called "Si4703" which said that its able to receive those RDS data and inside the rds is the tmc 8) 17:52 #navit: < ilovekiruna> how would the signal go to every client then? 17:52 #navit: < ilovekiruna> would navit over a service on the server? 17:53 #navit: < jkoan> its conectable to the arduino so we can build something like a protocol to send them over serial 17:54 #navit: < jkoan> probably as an addon to the nmea standart like txt or so 17:54 #navit: <@KaZeR> jkoan: cool idea. I'm concerned about the precision and how easy it would be to match tmc data to the map data but it's definitely worth a try 17:54 #navit: < ilovekiruna> so u mean every user hd to hv it him/herself? 17:54 #navit: < ilovekiruna> I am also very curious to see 17:55 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: for tmc yes, as the broadcast is local. Although you can get some tmc data over an internet connection, but it would require a subscription probably 17:55 #navit: < jkoan> ilovekiruna: tmc is contry dependent and needs to encodet with special tables, so probably this is needet jey 17:55 #navit: < ilovekiruna> I was actually thinking country specific 17:55 #navit: < jkoan> KaZeR: probably we can also provide a service for open tmc data 17:55 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: gpsd has some network capabities, check out the udp broadcast 17:56 #navit: < ilovekiruna> KaZeR: am a little confused now. Do you talk about the performance testing or tmc? 17:57 #navit: < jkoan> KaZeR: osm data also has the location points in its data so we only need to match the events (like traffic jam) 17:57 #navit: < jkoan> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TMC see here 17:58 #navit: < ilovekiruna> about the tmc, just wonder how we could make it simple for an end user ;-) 17:58 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: that was about your question "would navit over a service on the server" which i now realize could be related to both the gpsd discussion we were having, and the tmc discussion :) 17:58 #navit: <@KaZeR> jkoan: correct, but when i last tested, precision wasn't good enough. Maybe it's better today.. there's only one way to know :) 17:58 #navit: < ilovekiruna> KaZaR: That was tmc related 17:58 #navit: <@KaZeR> (precision for tmc events) 17:59 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: ok 17:59 #navit: < ilovekiruna> u know, for geeks, ofc making serial connections is ok 17:59 #navit: <@KaZeR> jkoan: http://trac.navit-project.org/ticket/570#comment:14 17:59 #navit: < jkoan> ilovekiruna: kickstarter and a usb device :P this should be easy to build because all files exits for the module and the arduino 17:59 #navit: < ilovekiruna> maybe for the "crazy idea" device could be a nice feature though :) 18:00 #navit: < ilovekiruna> jkoan: ok :) Sorry if i sounded too pessimistic 18:00 #navit: < jkoan> KaZeR: any news on the "crazy idea"? 18:00 #navit: <@KaZeR> jkoan: the best option fell through but a backup plan is in the works 18:01 #navit: < ilovekiruna> jkoan, KaZeR: thanks for me being part of the community here, i really enjoy it, despite i contribute so little :S 18:01 #navit: < jkoan> do you want to tell me something more about it? :D 18:01 #navit: < jkoan> ilovekiruna: no problem and thanks to you :) 18:03 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: you're welcome. And my secret agenda is to get you to contribute more.. slowly roping you in :D 18:04 #navit: <@KaZeR> jkoan: i want to, but i can't for now :) 18:04 #navit: <@KaZeR> i 18:04 #navit: < jkoan> KaZeR: about the precision: if the point numbers are inside the osm data we dont have to match them and thy are always on the right point. Or do i understand this false? Bacause the comment you mentioned is from bing and not tmc 18:04 #navit: <@KaZeR> i'm not being secretive, it's just that i can't for now 18:04 #navit: < jkoan> KaZeR: even not in pm? :D 18:04 #navit: < ilovekiruna> KaZeR: u know, when i find time, i already try to do more 18:04 #navit: < ilovekiruna> :D 18:04 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: yep i know :) 18:05 #navit: <@KaZeR> jkoan: regarding precision, the issue if you look at my example is that either the data is always precise, or it's not. If the data isn't precise, then when you hit an existing osm data point it might be luck, or worst it might be wrong. 18:06 #navit: <@KaZeR> the example in trac shows that this event could be mapped to "French camp road" or "Golden St Highway" for example 18:10 #navit: < jkoan> KaZeR: the tmc location table data is mapped by users manually so the data should be correct :/ 18:10 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@22-164-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #navit 18:12 #navit: <@KaZeR> jkoan: don't get me wrong this would be really nice, and i'm glad that you are planning on working on it. Hopefully you'll get better results than what i got the last time 18:15 #navit: < jkoan> we will see if its working 18:16 #navit: < jkoan> i will update you if i have new informations ;) 18:16 #navit: <@KaZeR> perfect thanks 18:38 #navit: < ilovekiruna> thanks 18:39 #navit: < ilovekiruna> how tricky would it be to implement then showing some different options, when the routes are calculated in the beginning? 18:42 #navit: <@KaZeR> showing the route on the map isn't too difficult, we would just need another item like the route graph "map" 18:42 #navit: <@KaZeR> generating different routes could be done by using each available routing profile (car pedantic, avoid tolls, etc) 18:43 #navit: <@KaZeR> so there's some work but it's totally feasible 18:43 #navit: < ilovekiruna> i think we could look at it once tmc would work :D 18:43 #navit: < ilovekiruna> then it would be even more interesting 19:13 #navit: <@KaZeR> indeed! 19:22 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: wanna try something really new? 19:26 #navit: < ilovekiruna> what do u hv for me? 19:26 #navit: < ilovekiruna> am curious 19:28 #navit: <@KaZeR> https://hub.docker.com/r/navit/tomtom-build-image/ 19:31 #navit: < ilovekiruna> as long as u dont distribute navit as docker image am all happy 19:31 #navit: <@KaZeR> haha 19:31 #navit: <@KaZeR> docker is great for our builds/ci needs, but i am not planning on doing that :) 19:32 #navit: < ilovekiruna> do u know an open source software called openfoam? 19:32 #navit: <@KaZeR> if you have some time it'd be great if you could test the tomtom docker image and give me feedback. It should allow anybody to build an image in less than 5 minutes 19:32 #navit: <@KaZeR> next, implementing the same thing for android (which should be useful to a lot more users) 19:32 #navit: <@KaZeR> i don't know openfoam no. googling 19:34 #navit: <@KaZeR> interesting 19:37 #navit: < ilovekiruna> i can test it tomorrow 19:37 #navit: < ilovekiruna> dont hv docker on my hardened gentoo 19:37 #navit: < ilovekiruna> newer versions of openfoam are just distributed for ubuntu as package, all others as a docker image 19:37 #navit: < ilovekiruna> not very much liking it 19:40 #navit: < ilovekiruna> do i just need these commands? 19:41 #navit: < ilovekiruna> btw: why dont u include the commands directly in the docker file? 19:41 #navit: <@KaZeR> yep, it should be all you need. Which means that building for android is going to be as easy 19:41 #navit: <@KaZeR> yes we can include the build command in the docker file. I didn't do it yet because we currently have two builds, standalone and plugin 19:41 #navit: <@KaZeR> but building is now really fast, so we could just build both and not worry about it 19:42 #navit: <@KaZeR> there's one thing left to do : move the build result out of the container 19:42 #navit: < ilovekiruna> that would be easy 19:42 #navit: < ilovekiruna> u could just mount a persistant folder to the container 19:42 #navit: < ilovekiruna> then it would get out automatically 19:43 #navit: < ilovekiruna> i could imagine 19:43 #navit: <@KaZeR> exactly 19:43 #navit: <@KaZeR> you've build navit for android locally, right? 19:43 #navit: < ilovekiruna> just on ci 19:43 #navit: < ilovekiruna> not local 19:44 #navit: <@KaZeR> ok 19:44 #navit: <@KaZeR> because it will be easy to provide the same solution for anybody who wants to build for android locally 19:45 #navit: < ilovekiruna> except windows users :-p 19:45 #navit: < ilovekiruna> unless win 10 19:47 #navit: < ilovekiruna> mac os x could work though 19:47 #navit: < ilovekiruna> is the dockerfile on github? 19:49 #navit: <@KaZeR> not yet, going to push it today though 19:50 #navit: <@KaZeR> try building navit for android on windows or macosX today :D 19:51 #navit: < ilovekiruna> u will try? 19:52 #navit: <@KaZeR> i meant, try to do it today to see how much pain it is :) 19:52 #navit: < ilovekiruna> I cannot tell u that without the linux subsystem, linux containers dont work on windows 19:52 #navit: < ilovekiruna> simply because it is not a full vritualization, still sharing the same kernel 19:52 #navit: < ilovekiruna> that's why a windows docker container will never work on linux 19:53 #navit: < ilovekiruna> and without the linux subsystem also no linux container on windows 19:57 #navit: <@KaZeR> well, anyway the goal is to make everybody's (including ourselves) lifes easier :) 20:01 #navit: < ilovekiruna> sure 20:01 #navit: < ilovekiruna> tomorrow evening would tell you about the docker image, ok? 20:03 #navit: <@KaZeR> perfect thanks 20:03 #navit: < ilovekiruna> on gentoo hardened at home such things doent work 20:03 #navit: < ilovekiruna> glad to help 20:07 #navit: <@KaZeR> which kind of things? 20:08 #navit: < ilovekiruna> anything involving sth like virtualization 20:08 #navit: < ilovekiruna> it is pretty limited on that 20:08 #navit: < ilovekiruna> u need to patch the kernel to enable docker, I mean also there I was changing options in the kernel configuration 20:09 #navit: <@KaZeR> ah, ok. i use docker and qemu a lot, but i'm running a non hardened gentoo 20:09 #navit: < ilovekiruna> remind me, u r also on gentoo? 20:11 #navit: < ilovekiruna> one thing regarding navit is missing on gentoo :( 20:11 #navit: < ilovekiruna> a proper versioned package 20:12 #navit: <@KaZeR> yeah, i've been trying to get it in portage for 10 years :D 20:12 #navit: <@KaZeR> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=176552 20:12 #navit: < ilovekiruna> :-o 20:12 #navit: < ilovekiruna> do u hv a good ebuild? 20:13 #navit: < ilovekiruna> why dont we put it on an overlay? 20:13 #navit: <@KaZeR> it used to be in the sunrise overlay too 20:14 #navit: <@KaZeR> i haven't tested the ebuild for over a year now, but it should work i think 20:15 #navit: < ilovekiruna> why dont u hv ur own overlay? 20:15 #navit: < ilovekiruna> i hv one outside layman 20:15 #navit: < ilovekiruna> https://github.com/Dwarf-Planet-Project/ebuilds 20:15 #navit: <@KaZeR> yeah i used to do that to. But I think that it would be better to have it included in an overlay that has more users 20:16 #navit: < ilovekiruna> and wondering if to talk to a gentoo guy to include it on layman 20:16 #navit: < ilovekiruna> certainly 20:16 #navit: < ilovekiruna> but dont know which one to choose then 20:16 #navit: < ilovekiruna> anyway one finds overlays on gpo.zugaina.org ;-) 20:17 #navit: <@KaZeR> which has two packages for navit :) http://gpo.zugaina.org/Search?search=navit 20:21 #navit: < ilovekiruna> yes, but not sure if any of it works 20:22 #navit: <@KaZeR> true. Although it would be easy to test... Using docker :D 20:25 #navit: < ilovekiruna> using docker? 20:38 -!- bzed [~bzed@shell.bzed.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40 -!- bzed [~bzed@shell.bzed.at] has joined #navit 21:15 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: yeah. FROM gentoo-stage3-amd64; RUN emerge -q layman; layman -A ; emerge -q navit 21:38 #navit: < ilovekiruna> i understand that u can do it like that 21:38 #navit: < ilovekiruna> just didnt get why to use docker 21:59 #navit: < ilovekiruna> i mean i would now try to eemrge it directly in my gentoo 22:05 #navit: < ilovekiruna> u know maybe with docker or others one could really do sth i always dreamed of when doing ebuild writing 22:05 #navit: < ilovekiruna> make a small wrapper script to compile with all possible USE flag combinations, at best from just a plain stage3 images as u said 22:09 #navit: <@KaZeR> the idea behind using docker for this was to include this in the CI :) 22:10 #navit: < ilovekiruna> at home I hv a server running xenserver 22:10 #navit: < ilovekiruna> so i prefer not also putting on top another layer ;-) 22:10 #navit: < ilovekiruna> thats why I rather think about vagrant or packer, to make real VMs 22:12 #navit: <@KaZeR> the thing is that usually vagrant will spin up a full blown virtual machine, which is heavier than a container. But anyway it's just a matter of taste :) 22:12 #navit: < ilovekiruna> for sure, i agree 22:13 #navit: < ilovekiruna> heavier, but also better isolation 22:13 #navit: <@KaZeR> true. 22:13 #navit: < ilovekiruna> booboo navit fails on my machine in install phase as README doesnt exist 22:13 #navit: <@KaZeR> with what i did earlier, we will be able to remove the "Build the tomtom toolchain" step here : https://circleci.com/gh/navit-gps/navit/2539 22:14 #navit: <@KaZeR> and the build will be ~2 minutes faster 22:14 #navit: < ilovekiruna> also strange that it still has cvs as a dependency??? 22:17 #navit: <@KaZeR> yeah i think it was for gettext some time ago. We can probably get rid of that now 22:19 #navit: < ilovekiruna> do u still hv an uptodate ebuild? 22:19 #navit: <@KaZeR> i'd start with the one in bugzilla i think. I don't have a custom version locally 22:20 #navit: < ilovekiruna> ah, ok 22:21 -!- pmckinley [~peter@88-110-212-219.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #navit 22:21 #navit: < ilovekiruna> I think i quickly will test the ebuild from the bgo-overlay and then turn in. 22:21 #navit: < ilovekiruna> Almost time to sleep 22:22 #navit: < pmckinley> ;-) 22:22 #navit: < pmckinley> hello world 22:22 #navit: < pmckinley> hey KaZeR 22:23 #navit: < ilovekiruna> hi pmckinley 22:23 #navit: < pmckinley> hi ilovekiruna 22:23 #navit: < ilovekiruna> KaZeR: seems like both ebuilds suffer from the same issue. README does not exist 22:23 #navit: < ilovekiruna> guess should be easy to solve 22:23 #navit: < pmckinley> by the way, who IS Kiruna? 22:23 #navit: < pmckinley> or what.... 22:23 #navit: < pmckinley> or where.... 22:23 #navit: < ilovekiruna> a lovely city in norther sweden 22:24 #navit: < ilovekiruna> above the artic circle 22:24 #navit: < pmckinley> :) 22:24 #navit: < ilovekiruna> did half of my masters there 22:24 #navit: < pmckinley> I've been educated :) 22:24 #navit: < ilovekiruna> no night in summer, northern lights in winter :-D 22:24 #navit: < ilovekiruna> and very lonely 22:24 #navit: < pmckinley> woohoo! 22:24 #navit: < ilovekiruna> pmckinley where are you from? 22:24 #navit: < pmckinley> I'm in Northern Ireland, UK 22:25 #navit: < pmckinley> for now 22:25 #navit: < ilovekiruna> and originally? 22:25 #navit: < pmckinley> same, I mean it's in the UK for now, with Brexit that may change ;) 22:25 #navit: < pmckinley> are you still in Sweden? 22:25 #navit: < ilovekiruna> ah, I c 22:26 #navit: < ilovekiruna> no, am orignally from Germany 22:26 #navit: < ilovekiruna> now back :( 22:26 #navit: < pmckinley> haha i need to go to Leonberg 22:26 #navit: < ilovekiruna> Kiruna u can imagine the municipality around 20k km^2 22:26 #navit: < ilovekiruna> the city itself has just 19k people 22:26 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: https://github.com/navit-gps/navit/pull/308#issuecomment-326461906 22:26 #navit: <@KaZeR> i'll revert that. We need better testing 22:27 #navit: < ilovekiruna> so maybe in a circle of 100 km or rather more the largest city :-p 22:27 #navit: < pmckinley> hey KaZeR 22:27 #navit: < pmckinley> :) 22:27 #navit: < pmckinley> we have moved on, we are discussing geography now 22:27 #navit: < ilovekiruna> KaZeR: or we just change the ebuild file 22:27 #navit: <@KaZeR> haha. well that's still quite on topic :) 22:28 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: other external builds might fail for the same reason 22:28 #navit: < ilovekiruna> shouldnt that rather follow upstream 22:28 #navit: <@KaZeR> it should, but we don't have control over it 22:28 #navit: < ilovekiruna> am wondering, i guess if the file is there updated builds shouldnt mind, right? 22:29 #navit: <@KaZeR> not sure i get what you mean 22:29 #navit: < ilovekiruna> pmckinely, I asked for ur location, as for Germans one can explain the situation of kiruna a bit easier ;-) 22:29 #navit: < ilovekiruna> tanke the state around Frankfurt, remove all people and place such a small city in the middle ;-) 22:30 #navit: < pmckinley> :-/ 22:30 #navit: < ilovekiruna> KaZeR: I mean, what if for example I updated the ebuild, would it fail if we revert this change? 22:30 #navit: < ilovekiruna> pmckinley, great if one loves nature and silence, otherwise horrible 22:31 #navit: < pmckinley> well I live near a busy road so some silence would be nice 22:31 #navit: <@KaZeR> ilovekiruna: yes correct. But nothing tells us that ALL the other builds don't depend on that file 22:31 #navit: < pmckinley> nature I can live without ;) 22:33 #navit: < pmckinley> wait, did you hear that..........>:o 22:34 #navit: <@KaZeR> haha 22:34 #navit: < pmckinley> :-D 22:38 #navit: < pmckinley> brb, restart required 22:38 -!- pmckinley [~peter@88-110-212-219.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39 #navit: < ilovekiruna> I think I will sleep now. 22:39 #navit: < ilovekiruna> Good night all 22:45 #navit: < jkoan> KaZeR: what should your pr say?! 22:45 #navit: < jkoan> What do you mean by external builds? 22:47 -!- pmckinley [~peter@88-110-212-219.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #navit 22:47 #navit: < pmckinley> wb me 22:48 #navit: < pmckinley> cd 22:49 #navit: < pmckinley> =-O 22:49 #navit: <@KaZeR> wb you! 22:49 #navit: < pmckinley> :-D 22:53 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@22-164-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:01 #navit: < pmckinley> hmmm.. 23:31 -!- Horwitz [~mich1@p200300800E699200022268FFFE64E7C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45 -!- Horwitz [~mich1@p200300800E6FF800022268FFFE64E7C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #navit 23:45 -!- mode/#navit [+o Horwitz] by ChanServ --- Log closed Wed Sep 06 00:00:20 2017