--- Log opened Wed Jun 29 00:00:37 2011
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06:31 <@Horwitz> morgen
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09:22 < Number6> Morning
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09:55 < CIA-69> martin-s * r4552 /trunk/navit/ (CMakeLists.txt navit/fonts/CMakeLists.txt): Fix:Build:Install fonts only if fontconfig is missing
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10:39 < CIA-69> martin-s * r4553 /trunk/navit/navit/fonts/CMakeLists.txt: Fix:Build:Correct usage of globbing
10:41 < kenguest> Number6: it is?
11:18 < CIA-69> martin-s * r4554 /trunk/navit/CMakeLists.txt: Fix:Build:Include fonts after the correct installation directories have been set
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16:12 < tryagain> Trying to understand how map_find_intersections() work. If I got the idea, that's the place where all way points are resolved from node references to actual coordinates. But why do we call write_item_part on each coordinate? Are we going to save each way n times, where n is number of coordinates and repeat that m times, where m is number of node table slices?
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16:16 < tryagain> ping cp15
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16:20 < tryagain> ping Number6
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17:10 < tryagain> hm does maptool dereference all nodes to coordinates in all ways, or nodes get dereferenced to coordinates on way intersections only?
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17:54 < OwenLA7QZ> Hi. It looks like a lot of the problems I have been having may be related to the open street maps. Any recommendation for other easy to get maps that will work with navit? We are driving from Michigan to Virginia on Friday. I'm running out of time to get this working. Got other stuff to do than fight the computer all day...
17:55 < woglinde> OwenLA7QZ then forget navit
17:55 < woglinde> either it works
17:55 < woglinde> for you
17:55 < woglinde> or you have to invest time
17:57 < OwenLA7QZ> I've invested a couple of weeks...
17:57 < woglinde> OwenLA7QZ btw. you didnt tell on which os you are running
17:57 < OwenLA7QZ> Ubuntu Natty
17:58 < OwenLA7QZ> The problem is city/street searches are coming up blank even though I can zoom in and see those cities and streets.
17:58 < OwenLA7QZ> It can't find our home city (West Bloomfield, Michigan)
17:59 < OwenLA7QZ> Search for mother in law's street in Southfield lands us on a street of the same name in a different city. (And yes, I specified Southfield first and it's there if I zoom in).
17:59 < antenna1> OwenLA7QZ: how about searching your destination manually?
17:59 < antenna1> did you get the layout running?
18:00 < OwenLA7QZ> Yes, the layout is running fine.
18:00 < antenna1> if you got the point on the map, you can save it as a bookmark
18:00 < OwenLA7QZ> Even added an on screen button for 3d.
18:01 < OwenLA7QZ> Yes, that works, but the idea is that Navit should help me find places when I don't know where they are.
18:01 < OwenLA7QZ> I'm new in this area. (My wife is a native)
18:01 < OwenLA7QZ> But when we go to Virginia this weekend we'll both be lost... :)
18:02 < OwenLA7QZ> As it is now, we can't trust it. Either it's a bug in Navit or a problem with the maps.
18:03 < OwenLA7QZ> I'm now using the maps from cloudmade, but that didn't help much and uncovered another problem. No scrolling on the map selection page, so if I have more than a couple, I can't get to the entries on the bottom of the page.
18:13 < OwenLA7QZ> OK, so I guess the answer is ditch Navit, print the Google maps directions before we go and ask for directions if we need to go somewhere we hadn't planned before we leave. And I've just wasted a couple of weeks messing with this. Wonderful.
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18:23 < OwenLA7QZ> Before I completely give up. Can anyone recommend any alternative maps of the US that work with Navit, I still don't know whether the problem is with OpenStreetmaps or Navit.
18:24 < antenna1> OwenLA7QZ: why don't you open a feature request at trac to add scrolling? Routing is only as good as the maps, it might be navit, but it's probably the maps. The USA are huge and certainly there are rural areas not mapped precisely.
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18:27 < OwenLA7QZ> Don't think the scrolling will make it on the todo list by Thursday evening. Just discovered that one today. We are not in a rural area. And when I first started playing with it, it was finding our city and street.
18:28 < OwenLA7QZ> That was with maps from planet grabber. However, grabbed newer maps since and that may be when the problem started.
18:28 < antenna1> OwenLA7QZ: did you update navit since then? What version do you use?
18:29 < OwenLA7QZ> No, haven't updated. Can I see the version in Navit somewhere?
18:29 < antenna1> yeah, if you didn't change the html in the navit.xml, it the "about" bulb in the menu
18:30 < antenna1> *it's
18:30 < OwenLA7QZ> OK, Navit 0.2.0
18:32 < antenna1> any 4 place number behind it? Like navit 0.2.0 3501M?
18:32 < antenna1> it's the repository version, I presume?
18:33 < OwenLA7QZ> No additional numbers. Can't remember where it came from. Probably repository
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18:37 < antenna1> there were a lot of fixes since 3501, right now it's version 4554; thus installing the svn is highly recommended:http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Navit_SVN_installation_on_Linux
18:38 < antenna1> before you give up, you should install the latest
18:39 < OwenLA7QZ> OK. I'll give it a try. Thanks.... Installs I'm used to compiling. I did some programming in the 80's and 90's. Haven't compiled anything more complicated than a grocery list since then...
18:42 < OwenLA7QZ> So, why isn't there a newer one in the repository?
18:42 < antenna1> because the rep is set when a new ubuntu is released
18:46 < OwenLA7QZ> Lots of other software is getting updates in the rep?
18:48 < antenna1> well, send your complaint to collonical, not to us
18:48 < OwenLA7QZ> OK :)
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18:50 < antenna1> i know it's not user friendly and misleading for beginners
18:54 < OwenLA7QZ> If I was on the team developing Navit, I would put some time into: 1: Releasing versions that work out of the box. 2: making it possible to configure without editing a file. 3: Having the latest stable release for major OS's available for download (without compiling) if not in the repAs it is now, will scare a lot of potential users away.
18:56 <@cp15_> OwenLA7QZ, do you want to join the team?
18:57 < OwenLA7QZ> :) My wife will kill me if I spend more time on this and not on the honey do list...
18:58 <@cp15_> Well, a dead developer is no good developer :-) Maybe you can negotiate some compromise?
18:59 < OwenLA7QZ> Just the kind of thing I'd have been very likely to get involved in a few years ago. That's before I got married...
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19:15 < antenna1> it would already help alot if the wiki articles were better structured and linked; actually there is everything needed to get navit started.
19:15 < antenna1> OwenLA7QZ: how did you hear of navit? How come you did not know there was a svn?
19:19 < OwenLA7QZ> antenna1 I think I found it in the Natty rep. Was looking for road nav software. Seems everything else in there need an internet connection on the road.
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19:29 < korrosa> Hey all!
19:29 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: I've been following your frustrations!
19:30 < korrosa> A very brief history of the USA in OSM follows:
19:31 < OwenLA7QZ> OK?
19:31 < korrosa> In the beginning there was a blank map. Then some chaps started uploading gps traces, and adding pois. Then suddenly people realised that TIGER data (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tiger) was compatible with the OSM license.
19:31 < korrosa> So it was imported. All of it. It has now become an example of how not to mass import a huge set of data within the OSM community.
19:32 < korrosa> The reason: hardly anything was joined up.
19:32 < korrosa> So since then, many many people have spent effort in joining up ways which seemed to be linked, but on closer inspection it was just two unlinked nodes on top of each other.
19:32 < korrosa> You can't tell this easily from the Mapnik render on the Openstreetmap page.
19:33 < korrosa> What this means for Navit: routing may be very unreliable in those areas where ways seem to exist, but don't actually join up.
19:34 < korrosa> Why you can't search for some places which you previously could? That's almost definitely a Navit issue. I'd suggest opening up a trac ticket for that one.
19:35 < korrosa> Hope this helps a bit in understanding some issues in OSM data, and how they may relate to how Navit functions. Apologies for not actually providing a solution!!
19:36 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa - But I haven't changed the Navit version, and the only changes I've made in the xml were to add osm maps, get the map to follow the car and add a skin. What I have done is first redownload from the planet grabber which may have caused the problem (?) and then try the Cloudmade maps (which didn't change anything).
19:37 < OwenLA7QZ> Is there a file somewhere I could delete to get back to originally installed settings (apart from the navit.xml)?
19:38 < korrosa> The maps from the planet grabber are generated using maptool. This is also developed and maintained by the Navit team, and has had many updates, even in the past week or so. It could be one of these updates breaking things (even though you haven't updated your Navit version).
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19:38 < antenna1> korrosa: hey man, did you read the logs?
19:38 < korrosa> To be clear: I think that maps generated by the planet grabber are compiled using a maptool from latest SVN.
19:38 < korrosa> antenna1: Yup I did.
19:39 < antenna1> did you test the hmtl I posted on pastebin?
19:40 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: What about the Cloudmade maps. (They seem to be dated June 2nd. Which is older than the grabber map I used when it did find our city and street.
19:40 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: I don't know about those. If you look on our wiki, people have reported problems with Cloudmade maps, and we don't know what maptool version they are using.
19:41 < korrosa> antenna1: Nope. linky?
19:43 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: Just checking - I presume you don't have the working map available anymore?
19:44 < OwenLA7QZ> Korrosa: Nope.
19:45 < korrosa> Shame!
19:46 < OwenLA7QZ> Any chance someone could quickly grab the Michigan map from Cloudmade as check whether you have more luck finding the street "Applewood" in "West Bloomfield"?
19:48 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: I'll try.
19:48 < antenna1> the link is broken, sorry. Expired. Damn, I can't believe I deleted it!
19:49 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: Can you paste the url for the map? Can't seem to find cloudmade downloads.... :s
19:49 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: Gimme a minute
19:50 < korrosa> antenna1: What was wrong with it again? Just crashes Navit?
19:50 < OwenLA7QZ> http://downloads.cloudmade.com/
19:51 < antenna1> freezes it if you set a destination with bookmarks or generally
19:51 < OwenLA7QZ> http://downloads.cloudmade.com/americas/northern_america/united_states/michigan#downloads_breadcrumbs
19:51 < OwenLA7QZ> That's the page for Michigan.
19:52 < antenna1> korrosa: trash bin ftw! http://pastebin.com/mWtVPsrj
19:55 < antenna1> just set a few bookmarks in a row and stop routing shortly after it has found one
19:56 < antenna1> so set a bookmark, stopp routing, set another one
19:58 < korrosa> antenna1: Yeah, crashes after trying multiple destinations.
19:58 < antenna1> alright, thanks, that's what I wanted to know
19:58 < antenna1> Since I added the default html there were no further crashes
20:01 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: Can't find Applewood or West Bloomfield.
20:01 < korrosa>  That's using the Cloudmade map, and one I compiled myself using r4536 from svn.
20:02 < OwenLA7QZ> OK, so it's probably a map problem, not a Navit problem?
20:02 < OwenLA7QZ> I know it exists. I'm there! :/
20:02 < korrosa> No, I'd suggest it is a Navit problem. Can you find the place on the Openstreetmaps homepage?
20:07 < OwenLA7QZ> Hmmm. Finds West Bloomfield, but not Applewood. Doesn't even find Orchard Lake Road which is a major road through West Bloomfield
20:08 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: I can find Bloomfield in Navit.
20:09 < OwenLA7QZ> WEST Bloomfield
20:09 < korrosa> I know, but what's the different really?! :)
20:09 < OwenLA7QZ> So, maybe it is an OSM problem. So, back to my original question. Is there another set of maps I can use?
20:10 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: No. Well, yes, but not for you in the US. See: http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Maps
20:10 < korrosa> Orchard Lake Road is in OSM, but as Orchard Lake Rd.
20:10 < OwenLA7QZ> There's somewhere else called Bloomfield. And a couple more West Bloomfield which I did find when I was using a larger area from the grabber.
20:12 < korrosa> Openstreetmap only has West Bloomfield Township - is that the right name?
20:13 < korrosa> And you say this *did* work before, searching for West Bloomfield?
20:14 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: I'mm 99 % sure it worked...
20:15 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: No, 100% West Bloomfield worked, 85% sure Applewood worked...
20:16 < korrosa> OK. Just checking the OSM data.
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20:26 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: Does this relation cover your township? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/134558
20:28 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: Yes, looks like it.
20:29 < korrosa> There's the problem then: Navit doesn't recognise relations at the moment. Hence it has no idea of West Bloomfield.
20:30 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: Is there a fix?
20:31 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: No. It's on the roadmap, but no patch.
20:31 <@cp15_> As an alternative you can ad an is_in tag to the town
20:32 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: So, there is no way of searching that would find my street?
20:33 < korrosa> cp15_: No, you shouldn't. There is no place= node for West Bloomfield, as it's covered by the relation (as it should be).
20:33 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: Nothing obvious, anyway. What's the closest town/city?
20:34 < OwenLA7QZ> Farmington Hills and  Southfield are S and SE of here. However, I've only been here 6 weeks and a couple of short visits before. My wife is a native. But she's at work
20:35 < korrosa> Sometimes the street shows up in neighbouring towns, but not this time.
20:38 < OwenLA7QZ> OK, so no solution for now, and no other maps that would work better. My main issue is that I don't know whether it'll work or not for our trip to Virginia this weekend, so can't trust it...
20:51 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: and antenna: Thanks for your help. Hope this is fixed soon. Will be buying a Viewsonic Viewpad 7 next month.Was hoping to run Navit on it. May have to go for Copilot.
20:52 < korrosa> If you want reliability and something that that JustWorks, buy a TomTom or Garmin or other branded SatNav. And always carry a paper map.
20:55 < korrosa> If you know how to code, join the team and help Navit improve! We'll sort your wife out...
20:58 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: Seems silly to pay the equivalent of a Tablet computer for something that's only a navigator. Copilot seems to be getting good reviews. Doesn't seem to be any alternative, free or commercial for Ubuntu :(
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21:04 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: We think alike. Luckily here in the UK the government have released all the postcodes with their respective lat/lon coordinates in one file, so it's easy for me to find anywhere in the UK with a postcode and get Navit to drive to it.
21:04 < milker> Find some problem with mapool, like make bag report, but have no login on trac.
21:04 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: I wonder if something similar exists in the states?
21:04 < korrosa> milker: There are problems with logging in on trac, which are being worked on. What's the problem?
21:07 < milker> Find not same problem. Maptool did convert OSM relation for lake Onego as water. Coastline make as RELATION with tag "natural:water", but members have no tags.
21:07 < milker> Sorry, did NOT convert
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21:09 <@cp15_> milker, is there a reason why the members have no tags?
21:10 < milker> Ops, simular trac - http://trac.navit-project.org/ticket/689
21:10 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa. So, do you have the postcodes as POI in Navit?
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21:11 < milker> Local community insist, what right way to draw like is move all tags to relation, and no tags for members.
21:11 < milker> draw lake, sorry
21:11 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: No, as a separate csv file on my netbook. I fire up an external script which parses that file, and communicates with Navit via dbus for destinations, positions and view on map.
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21:12 <@cp15_> Well, that can get arbitrary complex... I don't think we can support this
21:15 < OwenLA7QZ> korrosa: But you'd think it should be possible to support postcodes as POI within Navit?
21:17 < korrosa> OwenLA7QZ: I guess so, but it'd be very difficult to search using your version of Navit - there's a patch in trac for searching pois by name, which would be useful if using postcodes as pois.
21:18 < antenna1> bedtime, gn8 guys
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21:18 < OwenLA7QZ> OK. Bye antenna1:
21:22 <@cp15_> OwenLA7QZ, are you from US?
21:24 < milker> Ticket #754  say what maptool have problem with support osm multipolygon. Will it be fixed? Can priority of this set higher then "minor"?
21:28 < OwenLA7QZ> milker: I was born in Norway, British father (and British passport). My wife is from Michigan. We met in the Caribbean. Our boat is still out there. I'm going back to prepare the boat for sailing to US in August.
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21:33 < korrosa> Wow, that's pretty cool!
21:35 < tryagain> OwenLA7QZ your search problems may be related to unsolved ticket at http://trac.navit-project.org/ticket/794 .
21:35 < tryagain> I think that it may cause Navit to find one steet on one version of map and another when you use osm extraction of another size and/or version.
21:36 < tryagain> Btw if you are going to spend some time on compiling Navit then you can try last patch from http://trac.navit-project.org/ticket/859. If you can find the center of town needed then you will probably able to locate your street/POI/housenumber  with POI search. But you will need to get osm data and compile it to binary format yourself.
21:36 < OwenLA7QZ> tryagain: Thanks, I'll look into that later. Working hard on the "honey do list here". Donna will be home in about 30 minutes....
21:37 < tryagain> good luckk with your list ;)
21:37 < tryagain> *lick
21:37 < tryagain> *luck
21:37 < tryagain> :-)
21:37 < OwenLA7QZ> tryagain: Don't thinki I'll have time to compile anything before we travel Friday morning.
21:38 < tryagain> well next time it may be in production...
21:39 < OwenLA7QZ> tryagain: I'll be getting a Viewpad 7 in a couple of weeks. Will see how Navit is doing then, but may go for Copilot which I believe is fully working.
21:40 < OwenLA7QZ> OK all, dogs need a walk. Got to go.
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--- Log closed Thu Jun 30 00:00:37 2011