--- Log opened Mon Jul 09 00:00:41 2012
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10:14 < Eldkatten> Hello. I'd like to ask whether navit is able to calculate route to targets which lay "offroad". I'd like to visit some stone settings which I know the coordinates of, but setting those as destinations doesn't result in a route, even after a long time (> 1 hour). Navit runs on Android 2.3
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10:32 < Eldkatten> Hello cp15, nice to see you. Do you know anything about routing to "offroad" destinations?
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11:28 < Eldkatten> Hello. I'd like to ask whether navit is able to calculate routes to targets which lay "offroad". I'd like to visit some stone settings which I know the coordinates of, but setting those as destinations doesn't result in a route, even after a long time (> 1 hour). Navit runs on Android 2.3
11:29 <@cp15> Yes, if no road is within about a few hundred meters no route will be calculated
11:30 <@cp15> Do you want a offroad route from you current position or onroad close to the destination and then offroad?
11:31 < ventYl> as i understand he want to find closest onroad route to arbitrary coordinates
11:32 < ventYl> wants
11:33 < ventYl> if i want to change OSD layout on android i can't avoid to mess with navit.xml inside box?
11:33 <@cp15> Currently yes... Well, there is another method but it is even more obscure. What do you want to change?
11:35 < ventYl> i made completely different OSD layout and i'd like to use it. but back then include feature worked strange... or better didn't work at all
11:35 <@cp15> Can you show me what you did?
11:36 < ventYl> and android navit is capable of load everything with *.bin mask as map so it would be nice that it is able to load smtg like /sdcard/navit/osd.xml if it's there
11:37 < ventYl> cp15: i have it on different computer, but later of course can
11:37 <@cp15> That would be easy, but it won't remove the original osd
11:38 < ventYl> i know... is something like conditional xml evaluation big problem?
11:40 <@cp15> Well, we could remove the osds from navit.xml completely and create /sdcard/navit/osd.xml if it doesn't exist with the default osds
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11:40 <@cp15> But if the default osd configuration changes it won't be updated
11:41 < ventYl_> damn connection
11:41 <@cp15> What was the last thing you have seen before disconnect?
11:42 < ventYl_> my last message
11:42 <@cp15> Well, we could remove the osds from navit.xml completely and create /sdcard/navit/osd.xml if it doesn't exist with the default osds
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11:46 < ventYl_> there can be something like in first line, which can be checked while including OSD if there's need to update file
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11:49 < Eldkatten> Sorry, I was away. I'd like to have an onroad route to the nearest onroad position. As far as I see the destination I tested with was about 250m offroad
11:55 < Eldkatten> cp15, something different: do you remember that we discussed the problem with Navit on Android (Cat Nova) "loosing" the route, i.e. not drawing any route for several minutes while navigating?
12:01 < Eldkatten> As far as I found out, the problem is that Navit seems to recalculated the entire route from time to time. Because this takes so long (at least on the Cat Nova), there are several minutes with no route drawn. My question is what triggers a recalculation of the entire route and whether it is possible ti repress that
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12:14 <@cp15> Eldkatten, I have tried this out and I can't reproduce it
12:14 < Eldkatten> Thanks, cp15. What did you try? Offroad routing or route recalculation?
12:15 <@cp15> Route calculation on my cat nova is reasonable fast (~4 seconds) and recalculation happens rarely
12:15 < Eldkatten> Sorry for asking two questions at the same time
12:15 <@cp15> Strange that you have such problems
12:16 < Eldkatten> 4 Seconds would be absolutely acceptable...
12:16 < Eldkatten> Would logging/debugging help?
12:17 < Eldkatten> Strange enough I have the same effects on two different Cat Novas
12:18 <@cp15> I will add something to debug this
12:19 < ventYl> i've had problems with routing only on ancient ipaq hp2215 where navit run out of memory while computing route
12:20 <@cp15> Your offroad problem could be solved by making the "find nearest street" algorithm more smart: If there is no road, increase the search distance
12:21 < Eldkatten> anything I can do?
12:22 <@cp15> How far is the distance to the road approximately?
12:22 < Eldkatten> 250m I think
12:22 <@cp15> Hmm... Then it should work already, search distance is >500 meters
12:23 < Eldkatten> "Visbeker Braut" 52° 53′ 31″ N, 8° 19′ 28″ E
12:25 < Eldkatten> Oh, seems to be 600m... I'll try again with something closer to a road
12:26 <@cp15> Well, a good test object :-)
12:38 <@cp15> Ah, ok, the algorithm for finding the nearest street is faulty
12:39 <@cp15> It just checks whether the nearest street is allowed for the vehicle, but doesn't check whether it is routeable also
12:43 < Eldkatten> Great! Found bug is a fixed bug ;-)
12:44 < Eldkatten> I'm off for a few minutes, getting something to eat. Thanks alot for your help
13:06 < curious> yeah, i had problem with such routes aswell
13:07 < curious> i.e. if destination was set to non-routable street, i.e. path or pedestrian path , navit would just not route
13:07 < curious> or i.e. if it was some kind of poi which was i.e. shop or parking (which was just polygon, not connected to anything)
13:08 < curious> i think this is bit different bug though, i.e. then navit has some destination street, but it's not connected anywhere (at least in non-routable way) so it fails to use off-route
13:09 <@cp15> Fixing that is quite difficult
13:10 <@cp15> Problem here is that the nearest street is of track_ground which is theoretically useable by a car
13:10 < curious> most commercial nav systems have 'route around point' and 'route through point'
13:10 < curious> the former is basically offroad route
13:11 <@cp15> But the car profile is missing an entry here (because usually you don't want to use them) so it can't route over track_ground
13:26 < Eldkatten> Well, I think I can live with a workaround, meaning I set the destination onto the nearest road manually. When I'm looking for these Destinations (by coordinates), I have "my fingers on the map" anyway.
13:49 <@cp15> Well, maybe some general discussion on this topic: What should happen if the road close to the destination isn't routable? Should the next best one used or should there be no route?
13:54 < ventYl> cp15: what you wait if you ask someone how to get somewhere? that if you can't get there by you current vehicle he tells you that there's no route or that you'll need your vehicle somewhere near and pass by foot?
13:55 <@cp15> Might be the other side of a river as well
13:56 < ventYl> what about adding status bit into route status that routing is completed but target isn't directly reachable and computing route to nearest reachable place?
13:57 < ventYl> it's more comfortable than doing nothing so user has to find such routable place
14:00 < Eldkatten> "No route" would be very confusing. I remember I had to shift the destination point several times an try again until I found one that was in front of the barrier instead of behind it (not reachable by car)
14:01 < Eldkatten> "The other side of the river" might lead to people driving their cars right into the water (actually happened near Bonn, Germany), but on the other hand, using a navigation system doesn't releave you of thinking on your own
14:03 < ventYl> it's called idiocy and it can cause death :))
14:03 < ventYl> storm is coming
14:03 <@cp15> Oops, I found another issue with Visbeker Braut: If I keep the tracks unrouteable and search for the nearest routeable street, it would be the motorway
14:03 < Eldkatten> What does the route show between the last routable pont an the offroad destination? Just a straight line?
14:04 <@cp15> Yes
14:04 < Eldkatten> That's great, it's what I would expect
14:04 <@cp15> The motorway or the straight line?
14:05 < Eldkatten> the straight line
14:05 <@cp15> There is no offroad "navigation" right now. But I am thinking about something like "Move 500 meters towards 11 o' clock"
14:05 < Eldkatten> Right, the motorway is closer to Visbeker Braut than any smaller road
14:06 < Eldkatten> that would be nice to have
14:07 < ventYl> maybe some different distance metric for calculating nearest routable point near non-routable point?
14:07 < ventYl> like the smaller road the more preffered?
14:08 <@cp15> That might route you to the back yard instead of the entrance at the main street
14:09 < ventYl> the latter may direct you to stop and park on highway
14:10 < Eldkatten> Is the motorway really a problem? If I get off the motorway and drive on the small road - ignoring Navit trying to get back on the motorway - the just-in-time-navigation would still lead me to the destination, wouldn't it?
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16:48 < gneandr> is it possible to configore navit.xml for more than one *.bin file, so I can select a specific on the GUI?
16:49 < ventYl> typing /your/path/here/*.bin should work
16:49 < ventYl> and yes. then you can choose in gui
16:52 < gneandr> do i need a separte definition, or can the additional bin def in just an additional line with