--- Log opened Fri Mar 08 00:00:14 2013 00:30 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: gringo 00:39 -!- Netsplit over, joins: gringo 01:28 -!- tparcina [~tomo@cisco15.fesb.hr] has joined #navit 04:03 -!- noradtux [~noradtux@2002:5ce0:325b::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:08 -!- noradtux [~noradtux@2002:5ce0:33df::1] has joined #navit 06:59 -!- fOB_2 [~fob@ip-178-202-247-64.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #navit 07:24 -!- Robotaxi [3ef5dbf5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.245.219.245] has joined #navit 07:51 -!- fOB_2 [~fob@ip-178-202-247-64.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:03 -!- _rd [~rd@p57B490BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #navit 08:08 -!- drlizau [~liz@billiau.net] has joined #navit 08:10 -!- woglinde [~henning@f052224186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #navit 08:40 -!- _rd [~rd@p57B490BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:26 -!- drlizau [~liz@billiau.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06 -!- Robotaxi [3ef5dbf5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.245.219.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:32 -!- _rd [~rd@p57B490BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #navit 12:42 -!- _rd [~rd@p57B490BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:11 -!- xenos1984 [~quassel@217.71.46.8] has joined #navit 13:12 #navit: < xenos1984> hi everybody 13:12 #navit: < xenos1984> i have an interesting problem moving my tomtom port from autotools to cmake 13:13 #navit: < xenos1984> in both cases i use sdl graphics and freetype 13:13 #navit: < woglinde> hi xenos 13:14 #navit: < xenos1984> and in both cases libgraphics_sdl.so is build without errors - but when i do it with autotools, it has ~40kb, and with cmake it has ~220kb 13:14 #navit: < xenos1984> hi woglinde 13:14 #navit: < woglinde> hm runcmake with verbose and compare the gcc calls 13:14 #navit: < woglinde> maybee its not stripped? 13:14 #navit: < woglinde> did you check it? 13:15 #navit: < xenos1984> ah, this is one possibility, i have not checked it - but it does not explain the main problem (apart from the size): 13:15 #navit: < xenos1984> in both cases it refers to the freetype functions such as FT_Load_Glyph 13:16 #navit: < xenos1984> but in the cmake version the reference to libfreetype.so is missing 13:17 #navit: < xenos1984> in the autotools version libfreetype.so is listed as a "needed" library within libgraphics_sdl.so 13:17 #navit: < woglinde> hm and it does not run right? 13:18 #navit: < woglinde> the cmake build I mean 13:18 #navit: < xenos1984> indeed - if i try to run the cmake version, it does not load libfreetype.so, and then does not find FT_Load_Glyph 13:18 #navit: < woglinde> okay 13:18 #navit: < xenos1984> and navit crashes at startup 13:18 -!- _rd [~rd@p57B490BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #navit 13:18 #navit: < woglinde> but why the hell it does not complain at linking time 13:19 #navit: < woglinde> sorry have to go now for a while 13:20 #navit: < xenos1984> that's what i was wondering about ;) 13:20 #navit: < xenos1984> but that's a good question, i'll try to find that out 13:27 -!- Usul1 [~matthias@stw-103-159.ras.uni-rostock.de] has joined #navit 13:27 #navit: < Usul1> hi :) 13:28 #navit: < xenos1984> hi Usul1 13:28 #navit: < Usul1> it became cold here in Germany again ;) 13:29 #navit: < xenos1984> what do you mean by "cold"? ;) 13:30 #navit: < Usul1> not this spring temperatues as in the past days ;) 13:32 #navit: < Usul1> I created some more GUI mockups, would be nice to get feedback: http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/User:Usul/UING#Dialogs 13:32 #navit: < xenos1984> here we have a warm (-2°C) and sunny day of spring ;) 13:32 #navit: < Usul1> think +2 here, but was f*cking cold for jogging in the morning :P 13:33 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... looks quite nice :) 13:33 #navit: < ventYl> Usul1: do the buttons a LOT bigger. there's always trouble select correct item from various navit menus on touch screen of smartphone 13:33 #navit: < ventYl> make them as big as possible to fill entire space which is left 13:34 #navit: < Usul1> which buttons exactly ventYl ? 13:34 #navit: < xenos1984> the last page / next page buttons are really large and take a lot of space... bigger buttons are good, but maybe not that big ;) 13:35 #navit: < xenos1984> but the buttons in the "recent" list are really a bit too small 13:35 #navit: < ventYl> Usul1: POI info dialog. menu items on the bottom are too small to be "tappable" 13:36 #navit: < Usul1> I see 13:36 #navit: < ventYl> same for last image with found POIs. they are also too small 13:36 #navit: < Usul1> the Pandora has hardware keys, you are right 13:36 #navit: < ventYl> maybe it's better to narrow search radius to give fewer results than show that many results on one page 13:37 #navit: < Usul1> will try to transform this into a button concept 13:37 #navit: < Usul1> BTW which device do you ise ventYl ? 13:37 #navit: < ventYl> Usul1: my xperia didn't have any, which means i have constantly trouble with selecting menu items even while walking 13:37 #navit: < ventYl> i have to stop to do selection 13:37 #navit: < Usul1> absolutly 13:38 #navit: < Usul1> will reflect this with the next update :) 13:38 #navit: < ventYl> other side is that four or five black/white menu items on top of otherwise entirely blank screen look weird 13:39 #navit: < Usul1> POI info dialog, right? 13:40 #navit: < ventYl> POI info dialog and last image with found POIs 13:40 #navit: < ventYl> show not more than four to five items in landscape view 13:40 #navit: < Usul1> yes . I know similar concepts from game OSDs 13:40 #navit: < ventYl> you must think about usage conditions 13:40 #navit: < Usul1> but as we need to skip menus, this needs an refactoring, too 13:41 #navit: < Usul1> ventYl: I had never a smartphone ;) 13:41 #navit: < ventYl> one can use your GUI while device is mounted in car holder somewhere in the middle of dashboard with strong sun shining into his eyes 13:41 #navit: < Usul1> +1 13:41 #navit: < ventYl> Usul1: treat it as car navigation system 13:41 #navit: < Usul1> sure, but it is already more than that? 13:42 #navit: < Usul1> so it's one usecase of more than that? 13:42 #navit: < ventYl> and design it so can be used by hands of someone who worked for 25 years in uranium mine 13:43 #navit: * Usul1 has fingers like sausages ;) 13:43 #navit: < Usul1> I will try to write some kind of "design guide" 13:44 #navit: < ventYl> it's not about scenario of device being far or with small screen 13:44 #navit: < ventYl> it's general design scenario of touchscreen device used without stylus 13:45 #navit: < ventYl> none of such devices have such tiny controls 13:45 #navit: < Usul1> definitly! But we already support various formfactors: http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php?title=File:NAVIT_platforms.svg&page=1 13:45 #navit: < ventYl> and if some of them have for sure they are not successful 13:46 #navit: < Usul1> at least the user should be able to decide, if he wants to make use of the hardware buttons or not ;) 13:47 #navit: < ventYl> all the form factors can be put in one of two different classes: have touchscreen and doesn't have touchscreen 13:47 #navit: < ventYl> relative size doesn't matter but physical does 13:47 #navit: < Usul1> +1 13:48 #navit: < Usul1> plz consider this mockups as an first step :) it's about this: discussing this drafts 13:49 #navit: < Usul1> And of course cp15 needs to say if that is geneal possible or needs to heavy code changes :/ 13:50 -!- Mamaeh [~ErgoSum@roxo.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #navit 13:50 #navit: < ventYl> may i write comments directly here or should i add them into wiki? 13:50 #navit: < Usul1> I wrote them into a notepad, but feel free to use the Wiki talk page to list them again 13:51 #navit: < ventYl> right now it's more comfortable for me to write them just here 13:51 #navit: < Usul1> ;) 13:51 #navit: < Usul1> You know this page already? http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Brainstorming 13:51 #navit: < Usul1> feel free to add own wishes and ideas :) 13:52 #navit: < ventYl> to be honest i don't use navit anymore 13:52 #navit: < ventYl> not because it was bad for me but because i switched my cellphone and current isn't able to run navit 13:52 #navit: < Usul1> np, IMHO it's still not very confortable but the single modules seem to be powerfull 13:54 -!- woglinde [~henning@f052224186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:55 -!- _rd [~rd@p57B490BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:56 #navit: < ventYl> don't display so much information on one page while displaying POI details. for most of time one doesn't need so much information. how often do you need to see phone/fax number/webpage so quicky that one another tap must be avoided? 13:57 #navit: < ventYl> rest of mockups looks generally good except "headers" 13:58 #navit: < ventYl> in portrait mode often text in heading overflows behind right side so most of heading text is just dots (...) with only last item fully shown 13:58 #navit: < ventYl> this is nearly useless 13:58 -!- woglinde [~henning@g230117143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #navit 13:58 #navit: < ventYl> or at least not much better usable than just displaying last item 14:02 #navit: < Usul1> I see, so we should use some kind of icon based title for portrait mode? 14:05 #navit: < ventYl> maybe not just for portrait mode. you probably won't get any benefit from using text in landscape and icons in portrait because space occupied by text in landscape won't be any smaller 14:05 #navit: < Usul1> ok, I tried to keep the general UI changes small, so cp15 has not to touch the very deep code 14:05 #navit: < Usul1> but yes, thats a good point 14:07 #navit: < ventYl> dunno how menus are implemented but maybe implementation should be "code styleable" so if touchscreen is "detected" menu behavior will be more touchy and if no touchscreen is available (e.g. laptop/desktop) conventional menu items will be shown not wasting space on display 14:09 #navit: < ventYl> IMHO gui internal isn't of much use on non-touchscreen device like laptop or desktop. displaying something like POI detail view from first screenshot on "fullscreen" covering entire map is pure waste of space 14:09 #navit: < Usul1> I see only one advantage in the text based approach, that the user might understand faster that this is the context. 14:10 #navit: < Usul1> I never saw this "breadcrumb" UI pattern with icons, but it sound good 14:11 #navit: < ventYl> maybe do it in way that last is text-only. which is okay because you never need to tap it and all other as icons 14:11 #navit: < Usul1> nice 14:12 #navit: < ventYl> so if you are in top menu, you will see earth icon and text Menu. if you choose location submenu, you'll see earth icon > home icon > location text 14:12 #navit: < ventYl> this way user has change to learn what each of icon means 14:12 #navit: < Usul1> sounds good, guess we need to see it in practice to fine tune the behaviour 14:13 #navit: < Usul1> btw from which country are you from ? 14:14 #navit: < ventYl> slovakia 14:14 #navit: < woglinde> ventYl you bought a phone with windows phone 7 or 8? 14:14 #navit: < Usul1> interesting :) I'm from Germany, too 14:15 #navit: < ventYl> woglinde: nope i bought old phone which supports only j2me 14:15 #navit: < Usul1> you can give gpsmid an try? 14:15 #navit: < ventYl> i use gpsmid 14:15 #navit: < woglinde> ventYl oh okay 14:15 #navit: < Usul1> :D 14:17 #navit: < Usul1> a few lines ago, you wrote about limiting the poi informations. So hiding contact details by default behind a "more details..." button? 14:17 #navit: < ventYl> more details or better "contacts" 14:18 #navit: < ventYl> dunno how often do you need contacts when you search something in navigation but me personally, most of time i just need to show it on map or find route 14:20 #navit: < Usul1> for me, too. But I expected, that if you have an phone and it's online, you might want to check out some details (as opening hours for example) 14:21 #navit: < Usul1> in the end, we only can present details that are within the data. And at least for OSM the contacts aren't that heavy used. But www is quiet popular http://openlinkmap.org 14:22 #navit: < xenos1984> i try to add contact details whenever possible ;) 14:22 #navit: < Usul1> OMG an micromapper ;) 14:23 #navit: < xenos1984> but i agree with ventYl - it's not necessary to have the full address, phone etc. on the first page 14:23 #navit: < xenos1984> except maybe for a link to the webpage 14:24 #navit: < xenos1984> but then i also want to click on it, so it opens in a web browser ;) 14:24 #navit: < Usul1> ok but again, is there a serious reason to limit this details? e.g. display dimenstions etc? 14:24 #navit: < xenos1984> if i cannot do that because the device has no internet / no web browser, i don't need the link 14:24 #navit: < xenos1984> yes, display dimensions are usually an issue 14:25 -!- noradtux [~noradtux@2002:5ce0:33df::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:25 #navit: < xenos1984> on tomtom devices there are only 240*320 pixels 14:25 -!- noradtux [~noradtux@2002:5ce0:33df::1] has joined #navit 14:28 #navit: < Usul1> I'm not sure, if we can get good placement without embeddeing some kind of container-concept 14:28 -!- tparcina [~tomo@cisco15.fesb.hr] has left #navit [] 14:30 #navit: < xenos1984> maybe it would be good to look at the layouts of other programs for touchscreen devices, just to get some ideas 14:31 #navit: < xenos1984> i also like the menu layouts of my garmin etrex vista, but that's not a touchscreen device, so there is no "finger size limit" on the size of controls 14:32 #navit: < Usul1> I used my Magellan explorist and my GoPal S3857 to get some ideas 14:33 #navit: < Usul1> but both focus pedestrians/hikers/bikecyclists only and dont aim to be crossplatform or deal with this huge amount of data and enduser categories 14:34 #navit: < Usul1> http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php?title=File:NAVIT_users.svg&page=1 14:34 #navit: < Usul1> Another good idea are game or multimedia center OSDs, as they are tuned for control with very limited interaction 14:40 -!- Mamaeh [~ErgoSum@roxo.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Quit: Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.] 14:50 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... this is interesting... i got a bit further with my autotools vs. cmake compile problem 14:50 #navit: < xenos1984> i looked up the linker calls for both variants 14:50 #navit: < xenos1984> when i build with autotools, libfreetype.so is on the linker command line, with cmake it isn't 14:51 #navit: < xenos1984> but it does not complain about unresolved symbols 14:54 #navit: < Usul1> Here is an update. I'm not full satisfied with the details button, but will think about it http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/File:Mockup_POI_info.svg 14:57 #navit: < ventYl> Usul1: try to scale it down to smallest wide-used resolution on android devices if it is readable. and one point: gray on black? dunno how well your display can display colors but on mine opening hours are nearly unreadable. i didn't noticed them first 14:59 #navit: < Usul1> openhours wont be displayed. It's just for me and cp15 to remember that this functionality needs to be embedded 14:59 #navit: < Usul1> Resolutions in the wild is an aspect 15:00 #navit: < Usul1> But IMHO is is a more genreal UI task (become cross platfrom) and not only within planing a control flow 15:00 #navit: < Usul1> will write it down 15:01 #navit: < Usul1> Knows anybody some table widget for mobile platforms (Android, iOS, ...)? 15:02 #navit: < Usul1> IMHO there are only lists, but how do they control the order of items? 15:05 #navit: * Usul1 walks to the city 15:05 #navit: < ventYl> order is fully under control of application 15:05 -!- Usul1 is now known as Usul1_afk 15:25 -!- noradtux_ [~noradtux@g225245034.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #navit 15:27 -!- noradtux [~noradtux@2002:5ce0:33df::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:27 -!- noradtux_ is now known as noradtux 15:51 -!- Navit [~Navit@static.3.141.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #navit 16:01 -!- KaZeR_W [~Z30@77.242.201.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59 -!- Usul1_afk is now known as Usul1 17:29 #navit: < Usul1> I fixed the list in the POI results screen, too http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/File:Mockup_POIs_search_results.svg 17:33 #navit: < xenos1984> the list looks good, but the menu items at the bottom are a bit to small 17:33 #navit: < Usul1> I will merge tehm into one single button, maybe just called "Filter..." 17:34 #navit: < xenos1984> it's really hard to hit an item that is only as high as one line of small text ;) 17:34 #navit: < xenos1984> yes, that would be good 17:35 #navit: < Usul1> but first I'd like to keep it that way, to remember what can be filtered etc ;) 17:37 #navit: < Usul1> Other interesting questions are lenght of names for POIs etc. 17:37 #navit: < xenos1984> oh, and your restaurants have nice short names ;) 17:37 #navit: < xenos1984> lol 17:37 #navit: < Usul1> its just a mockup :P 17:38 #navit: < xenos1984> yes, indeed, if the POIs have longer names, one needs to abbreviate 17:38 #navit: < xenos1984> of course ;) 17:38 #navit: < Usul1> And IMHO this is still a big step in usability for Navit *g* 17:40 #navit: < Usul1> but before I start more sketches, I will wait for a statement of cp15 17:50 #navit: < Usul1> concerning the icon filenames, I had the following idea: 17:51 #navit: < Usul1> 1. basic name is general and not about the content of the icon (e.g. it's car_repair but not boxstop as the content might change later on) 17:52 #navit: < Usul1> 2. then (can) come a countrycode to allow specific flavours within the default map style 17:52 #navit: < Usul1> and last but not least the dimension _XX.png 17:53 #navit: < Usul1> Still now, I'm not convinced, that we might ship additional versions for black menu or the night mode? 17:54 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... the names sound quite fine to me 17:56 #navit: < Usul1> thanks 17:56 #navit: < xenos1984> the problem with different background colors is not that easy, i guess... garmin solves this by offering two different icons for day and night (i.e. you can include up to two icons in a style) 17:57 #navit: < Usul1> But for night, I guess it's not just adding a colourfull background 17:58 #navit: < Usul1> the icon has to be less prominent, or even the map style needs to reflect that the user has less concentration etc. 17:58 #navit: < Usul1> so more limited details etc. 17:58 #navit: < xenos1984> right, on garmin these are two completely independent bitmaps 17:59 #navit: < xenos1984> well, i would just change the colors, nothing else 17:59 #navit: < Usul1> maybe we should concider that kind of behaviour later on our roadmap? 17:59 #navit: < xenos1984> if a user wants a different style at night, it's of course possible to choose something completely different 18:00 #navit: < xenos1984> yes, that's not an urgent thing 18:05 #navit: < Usul1> IMHO another good point is to lift the menu structures in general 18:16 #navit: < Usul1> xenos1984: Do you have an sateile_status widget in your OSD? 18:17 #navit: < xenos1984> Usul1: yes - but no gps signal (and no gps device) at the moment 18:17 #navit: < Usul1> I see :( 18:17 #navit: < xenos1984> only the demo vehicle and this shows me 5 green bars ;) 18:18 #navit: < Usul1> Well my problem is, that I have the bar, too but no number of satelites, as the wiki shows 18:18 #navit: < Usul1> Or is it just an seperated text? 18:18 #navit: < xenos1984> ah... i also have only the bars 18:18 #navit: < xenos1984> yes, i think so 18:18 #navit: < Usul1> ok 18:18 #navit: < xenos1984> where is it in the wiki? 18:21 #navit: < xenos1984> https://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/OSD#text says you can use vehicle.position_qual / vehicle.position_sats_used to display number of available / used sats 18:21 #navit: < Usul1> yes I read that snippet, but look here: http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/OSD#gps_status 18:21 #navit: < Usul1> so I thought it's the same widget 18:22 #navit: < Usul1> and displaying the road for the next turn just doesn't want to work :( 18:23 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... indeed - i guess on that picture someone used both the gps_status OSD and some extra text 18:23 #navit: < xenos1984> how do you display the road name for the next turn? 18:24 #navit: < Usul1> 18:24 #navit: < Usul1> (from the wiki) 18:24 #navit: < Usul1> but the label just displays "Turn onto" 18:25 #navit: < xenos1984> i think _systematic is just the number 18:25 #navit: < xenos1984> so if the street has no number, it displays nothing 18:26 #navit: < xenos1984> try street_name instead ;) 18:28 #navit: < Usul1> works :D 18:28 #navit: < xenos1984> great :) 18:33 #navit: < Usul1> and maybe the ETA is a bit to optimistic? Does it currently use routing? 18:34 #navit: < xenos1984> i think it does 18:34 #navit: < Usul1> But it doesn't count the traffic_lights? 18:35 #navit: < xenos1984> i think it only adds up the time needed for the roads 18:35 #navit: < Usul1> depending on your vehicle, right? 18:52 -!- jan [d9eb7f59@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.235.127.89] has joined #navit 18:52 #navit: < jan> hi 18:53 #navit: < xenos1984> hi jan 18:53 #navit: < xenos1984> Usul1: yes, exactly 18:53 #navit: < jan> hab gesehen, daß du eine neue Version online gestellt hast 18:54 #navit: < xenos1984> ja, die alte hatte einen bug - bzw. wurde nicht richtig aktualisiert 18:55 #navit: < jan> mit der Einstellung cache_size="1024" in der config stürzt mein TomTom jetzt nicht mehr ab 18:55 #navit: < jan> zumindest in ersten kleinen Test 18:55 #navit: < xenos1984> super - ja, jetzt sollte er die einstellung wirklich berücksichtigen 18:57 #navit: <@cp15> 1024 ist aber schon recht klein... Das wird elend langsam 18:57 #navit: < jan> die Ansicht ist aber eine andere, als vorher an meinem Pre. Auch die Stimme ist englisch, kann man das ändern? Das Package für den Pre war wohl ziemlich angepaßt 18:58 #navit: < xenos1984> bei meinem tomtom-package ist leider nur englisch dabei 18:58 #navit: < xenos1984> für andere sprachen braucht es eine bibliothek, die beim tomtom nicht dabei ist und die ich noch nicht portiert habe 18:59 #navit: < jan> das heißt, du jagst den Quelltest nicht einfach nur durch einen Compiler, der für den TomTom paßt, sondern du mußt alles was jetzt auf meinem TomTom drauf ist langwierig portieren? 19:00 #navit: < jan> was läuft denn für ein Linux aufm TomTom? 19:02 #navit: < xenos1984> das ist ein von tomtom selbst zusammengestelltes linux 19:02 #navit: < xenos1984> navit braucht viele bibliotheken - bei den meisten linux-distros sind die schon dabei, aber tomtom-linux hat nur eine sehr begrenzte anzahl von bibliotheken 19:03 #navit: < jan> gibt es da das eigentliche Linux in einem Flash-Speicher im Gerät? Ähnlich wie bei einem Smartphone? Die USB-Partition scheint ja nur die Navi-App und das Karten-Material zu enthalten 19:03 #navit: < xenos1984> darum muss ich nicht nur navit dafür kompilieren, sondern auch die fehlenden bibliotheken 19:03 #navit: < Usul1> das klingt nach Spass :) 19:03 #navit: < jan> aha, deshalb gibt es so viele kleine Dateien 19:03 #navit: < xenos1984> wo das gespeichert ist, hängt vom tomtom-gerät ab - manche haben nur sd-karte 19:04 #navit: < xenos1984> beim ersten mal hat es wochen / monate gedauert, bis ich rausgefunden hatte, was man alles kompilieren muss, wie und in welcher reihenfolge 19:04 #navit: < Usul1> Hatte das TomTom damals eigentlich schon TMC? 19:04 #navit: < xenos1984> oder wo man was im quelltext anpassen muss 19:05 #navit: < xenos1984> müsste es 19:05 #navit: < jan> also mein One XL hat TMC mit einer externen Antenne 19:05 #navit: < Usul1> weil TMC liegt "eigentlich" ja auch bei OSM vor :D 19:05 #navit: < jan> hat aber erst einige Updates seitens TomTom benötigt, bis das Dings endlich richtig funktionierte 19:06 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... aber bei navit auch? tmc hatte ich nämlich immer vermisst 19:06 #navit: < Usul1> Naja wäre einiges an Arbeiten nötig, klar 19:07 #navit: < Usul1> Aber wenn man ne TMC Tabelle mit ins Binfile packt und *irgendwie* den TMC Treiber zum laufen kriegt, könnte man auch die Baustellen in Navit eintragen lassen 19:07 #navit: < jan> also ehrlich gesagt, TMC ist meiner Meinung nach nicht wirklich nötig. Entweder die Meldungen sind veraltet (den Stau gibts überhaupt nicht mehr) oder man steht grad im Stau und die Meldung trudelt ein. 19:08 #navit: < Usul1> Steht uns ja frei ein opentrafficstats.org zu gründen und selbst Verkehrsdaten zu erheben ;) 19:08 #navit: < Usul1> der Mechanismus wäre ja derselbe ;) 19:08 #navit: < xenos1984> ich fands immer ganz praktisch, als ich noch in deutschland war und rund um hamburg unterwegs 19:08 #navit: < jan> ich persönlich bin beim letzten Urlaub nach Italien bewußt in den gemeldeten Stau gefahren, denn bis ich dort war, war der Stau schon weg 19:09 #navit: < xenos1984> hier hab ich leider kein navi, das tmc kann und estnische karten drin hat 19:09 #navit: < Usul1> ich bin nach dem Studium wahrscheinlich 3 Monate in Portugal zum Praktikum :D 19:10 #navit: < Usul1> Mal schauen, was man da noch mappen kann :P 19:11 #navit: < xenos1984> bestimmt einiges ;) 19:11 #navit: < xenos1984> ich muss mir hier mal die dörfer vornehmen... 19:11 #navit: < Usul1> naja wäre Lissabon, da könnten schon einige gewesen sein ;) 19:12 #navit: < xenos1984> na gut, das könnte sein ;) 19:12 #navit: < xenos1984> hier in tartu gibts aber auch noch genug zu tun... 19:13 #navit: < Usul1> ach klar, aber zumindest für mich will ich ja auch etwas Urlaub haben :) 19:14 #navit: < xenos1984> urlaub? was ist das? und was soll man da anderes machen als mappen? ;) 19:14 #navit: < Usul1> ich schnacke gerade mit Martin über die aufgebohrten Dialoge 19:14 #navit: < Usul1> ey nach 5 Jahren studium will ich auch mal für ein paar Wochen den Kopf ausschalten :D 19:15 #navit: < Usul1> ich glaub nach meiner Master-Arbeit habe ich das auch nötig :( 19:15 #navit: < xenos1984> tztztz... studenten :P 19:15 #navit: < Usul1> *pah* 19:15 #navit: < jan> wie bekommt man eigentich bei OSM neue Straßen ins System? Ich hab bisher nur Straßen benannt, wenn sie unbenannt waren, oder einige markante Punkte (Geschäfte) eingetragen 19:16 #navit: < Usul1> Bestimmt mit dem Editor, der in die Webseite eingebaut ist? 19:17 #navit: < jan> muß mich da nochmal mit beschäftigen 19:17 #navit: < Usul1> da: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHudskaQ1ks 19:17 #navit: < Usul1> nun musst du aber auch machen ;) 19:18 #navit: < Usul1> Hier gibts noch mehr: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Video_tutorial 19:18 #navit: < jan> ist das eine Computerstimme? 19:19 #navit: < Usul1> haha, nein Oliver ist der CEO von Skobbler ;) 19:19 #navit: < jan> na das sieht ja kompliziert aus 19:20 #navit: < Usul1> neee 19:20 #navit: < Usul1> wirklich nicht 19:20 #navit: < Usul1> der neue editor ist ja auch schon bissel freundlicher gestaltet 19:21 #navit: < Usul1> probier mal den JOSM 19:21 #navit: * xenos1984 benutzt kein potlatch, sondern nur josm 19:21 #navit: < Usul1> der sieht zwar gewaltig aus, aber in der Praxis brauchst du nur 5..6 Befehle 19:21 -!- drlizau [~liz@billiau.net] has joined #navit 19:21 #navit: < jan> JOSM sieht ja noch komplizierter aus 19:21 #navit: < jan> so wie CAD 19:21 #navit: < jan> uiuiui 19:21 #navit: < Usul1> du brauchst das meiste davon (noch) gar nicht ;) 19:22 #navit: < Usul1> ist eben nem klassischen GIS nachempfunden ;) 19:22 #navit: < jan> GIS? 19:22 #navit: < Usul1> GeoInformationsSystem 19:22 #navit: < Usul1> OSM hat ja das Karten-basteln nicht erfunden ;) 19:29 #navit: < jan> hab mir den JOSM-Editor mal geladen.. 19:34 -!- Usul1 is now known as Usul1_afk 19:44 #navit: < jan> ist doch kompliziert, dieser JOSM 19:46 #navit: < xenos1984> naja, josm hat ziemlich viele funktionen 19:46 #navit: < xenos1984> wenn man wirklich alle davon verstehen will, braucht das schon viel zeit 19:47 #navit: < xenos1984> für den anfang braucht man eigentlich nur den auswahlmodus (taste S), den einfügemodus (taste A)... das eigenschaftenfenster... und vorlagen sind hilfreich 19:47 #navit: < jan> ich hab grad schnell mal ein Gebäude eingezeichnet, nicht wirklich so einfach. 19:48 #navit: < xenos1984> alles eine frage der übung ;) wenn du das öfter gemacht hast, gewöhnst du dich sicher dran 19:48 #navit: < jan> aha 19:49 #navit: < xenos1984> was fandest du denn beim gebäude zeichnen kompliziert? 19:50 #navit: < jan> wohl die Bedienung. das mit den Tasten S und A wußte ich noch nicht. Entweder hat sich die Karte verschoben (rechte Maustaste ist ja eigentlich dem Kontextmenü zugeordnet) oder es wurden neue Punkte eingefügt (links-klick) 19:51 #navit: < xenos1984> ah... ja, das mit den maustasten ist am anfang etwas verwirrend 19:52 #navit: < xenos1984> die rechte maustaste ist bei josm zum verschieben der karte 19:52 #navit: < jan> ja 19:52 #navit: < xenos1984> die linke maustaste hat eine andere funktion, je nach modus 19:52 #navit: < xenos1984> im auswahlmodus kann man mit links objekte auswählen 19:52 #navit: < xenos1984> im einfügemodus erstellt man damit neue punkte und linien 19:53 #navit: < jan> ich wollte was speichern, da hat er gemeint, es würde ein Modul fehlen, funktioniert nicht 19:53 #navit: < jan> speichert er dann nur die Arbeit? Oder auch das Kartenmaterial was man heruntergeladen hat= 19:53 #navit: < jan> ? 19:53 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... das ist seltsam... was denn für ein modul? hat er dazu mehr infos gegeben? 19:54 #navit: < xenos1984> also man sollte den kompletten kartenausschnitt speichern können, heruntergeladene daten mit änderungen 19:54 #navit: < jan> verwende OS X 19:55 #navit: < xenos1984> na gut, mit OS X kenne ich mich nicht aus, ich hab nur linux 19:55 #navit: < jan> "keine Exportfunktion gefunden! Es wurde nichts gespeichert." 19:56 #navit: < xenos1984> das klingt in der tat seltsam... 19:56 -!- woglinde_ [~henning@f052066095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #navit 19:56 #navit: < jan> war im Download ein Zip-Paket, nach dem Entpacken gab es ein OS X App 19:57 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... 19:58 #navit: < jan> naja, ich probier noch etwas 19:58 -!- woglinde [~henning@g230117143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59 #navit: < xenos1984> viel erfolg damit ;) 20:00 #navit: < jan> danke 20:01 #navit: < jan> jetzt hab ichs, der JOSM wollte die Daten direkt in das App-Package speichern, was wohl nicht ging 20:01 #navit: < jan> kann man damit auch die Karten-Informationen für Navit downloaden und speichern? 20:01 #navit: < xenos1984> nicht direkt 20:01 #navit: < xenos1984> die navit-karten werden aus den OSM-daten erstellt, aber die müssen erst von OSM nach navit umgewandelt werden 20:02 #navit: < jan> kann man das auch lokal machen? mit einem App? 20:03 #navit: < xenos1984> es gibt da ein programm namens maptool, mit dem wird das gemacht - das gehört zu navit dazu 20:05 #navit: < jan> osm enthält ja viele Informationen. Gibts da auch Entwicklungen für blinde Personen? So mit Audio-Ausgabe von den Informationen wie Restaurants, Shops, Straßennamen, Entfernungen 20:07 #navit: < xenos1984> ja, da gibt's einiges - müsste man auch im OSM-wiki finden, wenn man nach "blind" o.ä. sucht 20:08 #navit: < xenos1984> da werden auch dinge wie taktiles pflaster erfasst (das man mit dem blindenstock ertasten kann) 20:08 #navit: < jan> oh, das ist ja interessant 20:12 -!- drlizau [~liz@billiau.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12 #navit: < jan> bin schon ganz gespannt, wenn navit auf meinem neuen iPhone läuft 20:13 #navit: < xenos1984> dann drücke ich mal die daumen ;) 20:15 #navit: < jan> aufm Pre ist Navit wirklich gut gelaufen, außer daß webOS hier und da noch einige "Ungereimtheiten" hatte und die Bedienung hin und wieder langsam war 20:15 #navit: < jan> aber iOS ist da ja um längen besser, wenn auch nicht so schön offen 20:16 #navit: < jan> wirklich schade, daß HP das eingestampft hat, sonst wäre das eine ideale Plattform für Navit 20:18 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... hab ich ehrlich gesagt noch nie benutzt, ich hab aber auch kein smartphone o.ä. 20:18 #navit: < xenos1984> ich muss mal off für heute, gn8 20:19 #navit: < jan> schade 20:19 #navit: < jan> schade für das smartphone meinte ich 20:19 #navit: < jan> naja, gn8 20:19 -!- xenos1984 [~quassel@217.71.46.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28 -!- jan [d9eb7f59@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.235.127.89] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:53 -!- Usul1_afk [~matthias@stw-103-159.ras.uni-rostock.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07 -!- woglinde_ is now known as woglinde 21:10 -!- woglinde_ [~henning@g225072158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #navit 21:14 -!- woglinde [~henning@f052066095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24 -!- woglinde_ is now known as woglinde 21:52 -!- woglinde_ [~henning@f052234198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #navit 21:55 -!- woglinde [~henning@g225072158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:23 -!- _rd [~rd@p57B490BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #navit 22:46 -!- _rd [~rd@p57B490BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:54 -!- woglinde_ [~henning@f052234198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] --- Log closed Sat Mar 09 00:00:14 2013