--- Log opened Sun Aug 24 00:00:41 2014
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09:42 #navit: < bafplus> Just strated the introduction course to programming from Microsoft online University.... my feeling after the introduction: http://img.pandawhale.com/post-38723-Neo-I-know-kung-fu-gif-Imgur-bUjp.gif
09:43 #navit: < bafplus> but i only completed just 1% of the course... :-)
09:43 #navit: < Mineque> http://replygif.net/1488
09:44 #navit: < Mineque> my reaction to some programming book
09:45 #navit: < Mineque> some time ago
09:47 #navit: < bafplus> http://marladshepard.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/my-code-doesnt-work-i-have-no-idea-why.jpg
09:47 #navit: < bafplus> i have a long way to go...but...i'm confident ;-)
09:49 #navit: < jandegr> what is your background in programming bafplus ?
09:50 #navit: < bafplus> eh...none...maybe some simple html/php....
09:50 #navit: < bafplus> i'm a carpenter of trade ;-)
09:52 #navit: < jandegr> to improve my skills I took courses at OU (yes your OU !)
09:52 #navit: < jandegr> now doing the 20th module
09:53 #navit: < bafplus> ou?
09:53 #navit: < jandegr> .nl
09:53 #navit: < bafplus> ok...i am doing these: http://www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com/
09:55 #navit: < bafplus> Which one dit you do...LOI?
09:55 #navit: < bafplus> We have a lot of OU in nl
09:56 #navit: < jandegr> there is only one ou.nl
09:56 #navit: < jandegr> https://www.ou.nl/web/studieaanbod/home?p_p_id=storefront_portlet_WAR_storefront&p_p_lifecycle=1&p_p_state=normal&p_p_mode=view&p_p_col_id=column-4&p_p_col_count=1&_storefront_portlet_WAR_storefront__spage=%2FSelectProd.do%3Fname%3DBachelor+Informatica%26tagId%3D1%26prodId%3D1904&_storefront_portlet_WAR_storefront_name=Bachelor+Informatica&_storefront_portlet_WAR_storefront_tagId=1&_storefront_portlet_WAR_storefront_prodId=1904&_store
10:00 #navit: < bafplus> ok...maybe something for the future (and let my work pay for it ;-) )
10:00 #navit: < bafplus> The microsoft courses are aimed for newbies and (appart from certification) are free
10:01 #navit: < bafplus> but it s agood start to get familiar with programming and code in its basic
10:02 #navit: < jandegr> is it this one ? C# Fundamentals for Absolute Beginners
10:02 #navit: < hoschi> interesting, and you are all "customizing" navit to fit your needs?
10:02 #navit: < hoschi> i wont start with C#
10:04 #navit: < bafplus> i'm starting "software Development Fundamentals" and start my way up from there
10:05 #navit: < bafplus> I don't expect to fully code after this, but at least understand more about structure, syntaxes etc
10:06 #navit: < bafplus> hoschi, what would you sugjest to start with? basic, C#, C+(+), VB?
10:08 #navit: < hoschi> C and later on C++. Sounds oldscool but i learned C/C++ and it took a while but then i get famiiliar with C# and java very fast because they are easier and more abstract and the most important point: you know what they are doing in the background
10:09 #navit: < hoschi> its my personal optinion. I like to know what is happening under the hood.
10:13 #navit: < bafplus> I'm expected to get around cscript, .net en vb (basics) on a short term....i also want to know whats under the hood, but i also guess thet using a less abstract language the learning curve is "easier"...
10:15 #navit: < bafplus> My work is planning some sort af training soon, but i like to do some pre-schooling to ease that, but there are a lot of languages around and its quite hard to wrap you're head around what is a good starting point
10:18 #navit: < Mineque> jandegr, are you safisfied with ou?
10:18 #navit: < hoschi> C#, Java, python etc are more abstract and its easier to learn them if you have a common base and thats C ;) What you are doing in C by hand is done for you within C#. Thats what i mean with more abstract.
10:19 #navit: < bafplus> at this point i'm intrested in knowing "how" programming/coding works, when i understand the fundamentals of programming i figure learning a spicific coding-language is easier to understand
10:19 #navit: < hoschi> if you want to focus on C# its okay to learn C#. if you want to lean programming independent from a programming language then start more basic
10:20 #navit: < Mineque> i tried cpp but oop was for me a little bit messy
10:20 #navit: < Mineque> i mean oop implementation in cpp
10:20 #navit: < Mineque> currently hard working on java
10:20 #navit: < Mineque> bafplus, so youre not alone with your first steps ;)
10:20 #navit: < bafplus> i figured ;-)
10:21 #navit: < jandegr> Mineque, i'll be back in a while to answer your question.
10:21 #navit: < Mineque> jandegr, sure
10:21 #navit: < hoschi> oop is more a way of thinking, how to abstract a problem. maybe its a hard way to start with this :D
10:22 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, nope i tried with php, cpp and the way it is in java first get to my mind
10:23 #navit: < hoschi> Mineque ok so you found your way. Java is easy but i miss pointers and its horribly slow :D
10:26 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, i can't agree or disagree from my knowledge but slow java from what i read is myth
10:27 #navit: < Mineque> after implementing JIT and other features in jvm
10:27 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, if it would be so slow why would be so many enterprise implementation with java frameworks
10:28 #navit: < Mineque> but as i said, not my opinion. Too early for that
10:29 #navit: < hoschi> yeah thats right, its used widely. Its also useful to write business applications easily and also with C#. I don't want to offend anyone.
10:30 #navit: < hoschi> i dont know java in terms of performance optimization. sure they are some techniques
10:31 #navit: < Mineque> but isnt that with c# youre tighten to MS server?
10:31 #navit: < Mineque> i'm really curious with new microsoft stuff for its ecosystem
10:31 #navit: < Mineque> w8 i'll find url
10:32 #navit: < Mineque> http://dev.windows.com/en-us/develop/Building-universal-Windows-apps
10:32 #navit: < Mineque> curious how it'll work
10:32 #navit: < Mineque> and how much there is marketing bullshit
10:33 #navit: < hoschi> C# is within the ms ecosystem, thats right.  C# got more "functionality" and a lot of stuff like Lambda expressions (also in java in near future if iam not wrong), "Linq"-querys and so on
10:33 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, since march already in
10:34 #navit: < Mineque> with java 8
10:34 #navit: < hoschi> very good :)
10:34 #navit: < hoschi> thanks ;)
10:34 #navit: < bafplus> Guys...maybe you can find some info on that somewere here: http://www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com/
10:34 #navit: < Mineque> hard to miss if you search for java because you read everywhere "oh wow lamba lambda java 8 lambda blah"
10:35 #navit: < jandegr> Mineque, contents of the courses at OU is the same as in a regular university, but I am too old to attend a regular university
10:35 #navit: < Mineque> ah
10:35 #navit: < Mineque> ok
10:35 #navit: < Mineque> youre not too old but i guess dont have time ;)
10:35 #navit: < Mineque> i doubt there are age limits
10:36 #navit: < jandegr> the other students are the age of my children
10:37 #navit: < jandegr> if I went to a regular university
10:37 #navit: < hoschi> Mineque i dont want to start a discussion about whats the best, i simply tried to explain my opinion.
10:40 #navit: < bafplus> I got that same "problem" jandegr
10:40 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, there was on in my will to start holly war, i mean that when your read about java 8 they mostly talk only about lambdas
10:41 #navit: < Mineque> nothing to you man ;)
10:42 #navit: < jandegr> it's not a problem at all bafplus, only a fact
10:42 #navit: < hoschi> ok and as you already said its somethink you can start a holy war with
10:43 #navit: < Mineque> jandegr, look from other point, so many young pretty girls ;)
10:45 #navit: < jandegr> one F to master is more than enough :)
10:45 #navit: < hoschi> F?
10:45 #navit: < jandegr> as in M/F
10:46 #navit: < hoschi> ah ok, but i dont understand what is meant with "to master"?
10:46 #navit: < jandegr> bye folks, have to continue work on the housenumbersearch improvement.
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10:46 #navit: < hoschi> bye
10:48 #navit: < magruder> To master: aka to be good at dealing with???
10:49 #navit: < Mineque> magruder, even F arent capable of mastering other F ;)
10:55 #navit: < hoschi> ah ok now i understand the sentence ;)
10:57 #navit: < magruder> That's why one is more than enough hah @ mineque
11:10 #navit: < Mineque> hehe
11:10 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, youre mainly c# dev?
11:13 #navit: < hoschi> iam developing in C# and i started in January this year so iam a newbie :D  Since January i learned SharePoint (serverside, sandboxed webpart) development within one project and currently working on developing a desktop application.
11:14 #navit: < hoschi> whats your backround?
11:15 #navit: < hoschi> i started in January with C#, to clarify
11:22 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, currently i can say i'm developer
11:22 #navit: < Mineque> i'm theoretic book reader trying slowly with coding ;)
11:22 #navit: < Mineque> *i can't
11:22 #navit: < Mineque> little of php, little more java
11:28 #navit: < Mineque> nothing impressive
11:29 #navit: < hoschi> should it be impressive? everyone should follow his interests and should not compare to someone else
11:29 #navit: < Mineque> i'm not comparing just telling i'm on the beginning of programming road
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13:19 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, developing for yourself or company tasks?
13:20 #navit: < hoschi> both :)
13:20 #navit: < Mineque> ok
13:21 #navit: < Mineque> mono is still alive or dead project? or you're not interesed in developing c# for linux?
13:26 #navit: < Mineque> pretty active i see
13:43 #navit: < hoschi> i had one project with mono a few years ago. i dont know much about it actually
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15:54 #navit: < hoschi> is anyone able to answer my questions regarding Navit Binfile plugin from yesterday?
15:55 #navit: < hoschi> --> i am currently trying to collect all item data and iam getting a strange error within an item_coord_get() call. I can follow the error to the binfile_coord_get() function. It tries to memcpy a coordinate and fails. The max value is very high (max = 10815) and its the 22205 coordinate i get from this function. Is there somethink i missed? I am retrieving an item from map_rect_get_item() function, process it by running
15:55 #navit: < hoschi> item_coord_get() in a while loop and in another loop the item_attr_get() function.
15:56 #navit: < hoschi> my intention is to gather all data from binfile, put every item in a list and process the items in parallel.
15:58 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, maybe create ticket? easier to follow and maintain
15:58 #navit: < hoschi> i tought it can be done in a shorter way :)
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16:18 #navit: < nate`> I love installing things on the pi.  It always tells me to drink.
16:23 #navit: < Mineque> so bad?
16:27 #navit: < nate`> Nah just reminded me that all time is beer time
16:36 #navit: < bafplus> I drink to that Nate
16:38 #navit: < nate`> My family toast is "it's noon somewhere"
16:38 #navit: < nate`> Then again there's some shiners in my family history heh
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16:45 #navit: < tryagain_> hoschi: can you post your current binfile.c or diff to pastebin?
16:45 #navit: < tryagain_> and link here
16:46 #navit: < hoschi> im not working within binfile, ive worked within route.c, so its curios. please be patient i have to go away for a short time. Thank you for your reply
16:46 #navit: < hoschi> then i will create a diff.
16:46 #navit: < tryagain_> sure, route.c
16:47 #navit: < tryagain_> im away from big brother too, so will look later too
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16:50 #navit: < miberto> Hi everybody. I've just download navit for android and get a map from http://maps5.navit-project.org/. I put the map from pc (Ubuntu 14.04) to the navit directory in my tablet, but doesn't work. Is there any manual or similar to get confidence with? Thank you in advance
16:52 #navit: < bafplus> Did you specifie the map in the navit.xml (i asume that navit on android doesent add it automaticly)
16:54 #navit: < bafplus> In navit.xml search for "mapset" and add this (changing the last filename to the filename of you're map):
16:54 #navit: < bafplus> <map type="binfile" data="$NAVIT_SHAREDIR/maps/{filename}.bin"/>
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16:56 #navit: < bafplus> if you put it in teh root of the navit directory remove /maps/ from the above filepath...
16:57 #navit: < tryagain_> miberto: android should pick up your map automatically
16:57 #navit: < tryagain_> does actions-town search work for you?
16:58 #navit: < tryagain_> if not, do you have your map under settings-maps?
17:00 #navit: < miberto> Thank you for explanations, I'going to try. Anyway isn't there any manual?
17:00 #navit: < tryagain_> btw google play version is outdated, its suggested to use our own download server
17:00 #navit: < tryagain_> wiki.navit-project.org
17:01 #navit: < miberto> what do you mean? how can I download skipping google paly?
17:01 #navit: < miberto> play?
17:03 #navit: < tryagain_> theres a link on wiki with apk file
17:03 #navit: < jandegr> download.navit-project.org/navit/android/svn/ has latest apk for android
17:03 #navit: < tryagain_> you will have to enable installing from other sources in system settings
17:09 #navit: < miberto> ok, since you gave me a lot of information I have now a bunch of things to do, thanks to all, I'm going to try
17:10 #navit: < jandegr> tryagain, seems my housenumbersearch now works not only within town rectangle but also with check if within town boudary polygon :)
17:10 #navit: < miberto> just a last thing: in android tablet where can I found the navit.xml file? I tried to search it but I didn' found. In the navir directory I found only the maps
17:11 #navit: < bafplus> miberto, i don't have experience with navit on android...changes are it even isnt pressent...can somebody with knowledge of android clarify?
17:12 #navit: < jandegr> on android best to start with 0606at from the wiki and follow the instructions = install it in the navit dir
17:31 #navit: < tryagain_> on android default navit.xml could be extracted (unzipped) from apk file. there are three variants inside for different resolutions.
17:32 #navit: < tryagain_> jandegr time to share your changes?
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17:38 #navit: < jandegr> will post a diff on ticket #1243 but test for fallback to normal search if searching in a town without boundary polygon
17:39 #navit: < jandegr> and cleanup code before posting a diff, it's quite messy now because lots of dbg lines were neede
17:40 #navit: < jandegr> most of the time was spent learning how the existing code works, the changes are only a handfull of lines :)
17:51 #navit: < jandegr> tryagain, I think this is the best solution I can find, I found no solution to tame the Extended house number search region in case we do not have town boundaries :(
17:53 #navit: < tryagain_> probably we should limit it by population dependent radius in that case
17:55 #navit: < jandegr> this is a situation where you solve a problem for some cases, makes a new problem for other cases
17:57 #navit: < jandegr> meaning : limit the search area for some solves an issue, for other cases some parts will not be found anymore, but town boundaries RocK :)
18:03 #navit: < jandegr> new search for the sample adress of #1243 https://db.tt/arY7sV4M
18:17 #navit: < jandegr> tryagain, why not pu a limit on the growth of the search range
18:17 #navit: < jandegr> In my sample case it grew by approx. 18 km.
18:20 #navit: < jandegr> If searching without town boundaries, leave everything as it is now, but limit the extension of the search range lets say to 5 km bigger than the original range.
18:26 #navit: < jandegr> That would at least partially solve the issue with the sample search bafplus gave: Netherlands, krommenie, dorpsstraat
18:28 #navit: < tryagain_> jandegr, it is what i was talking about. but i suggest to put limit dependent on town size (population)
18:28 #navit: < jandegr> The new housenumbersearch passed the 'fallback to old search with range extending' when no boundaries available
18:30 #navit: < jandegr> I misunderstood the first time and we both think of a similar solution :)
18:30 #navit: < tryagain_> so for 10k people town we could limit by 1km while for 10m city 10km could be better guess
18:32 #navit: < jandegr> do we agree on putting a limit on the growth ? with the way of limiting still to be determined
18:33 #navit: < tryagain_> yes
18:38 #navit: < jandegr> I still would go for a fixed limit, I know what I had to do to get some info on the town available in the housenumbersearch section.
18:40 #navit: < jandegr> I now have the town info available only if it has boundaries, but you can change that if you want to
18:42 #navit: < Mineque> jandegr, so no all towns have boundaries in osm?
18:43 #navit: < jandegr> tryagain: Anyway, I have the boundaries search available now in most area's I travel, I will leave the final decision up to you
18:44 #navit: < jandegr> I'll put make the diff available in a few days and you can easy adapt it to implement the limit
18:47 #navit: < jandegr> Mineque: start by reading http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/OpenStreetMap#Problems_with_OSM
18:48 #navit: < Mineque> ok thx
18:48 #navit: < jandegr> be happy to answer questions if you have any after reading it.
18:49 #navit: < Mineque> " (or, only travel to towns with unique names)." lol
18:54 #navit: < Mineque>     <osd enabled="yes"  x="718" y="230" w="100" h="100" command="zoom_in()" background_color="#000000c8" osd_configuration="1" image=""/>
18:54 #navit: < Mineque> can sb tell me why that doesnt work?
18:55 #navit: < Mineque> neither src="", image="", nor without works
18:55 #navit: < Mineque> i just want to display rectangle button with bg no imag
18:55 #navit: < Mineque> e
18:55 #navit: < Mineque> tryagain_, ?
18:56 #navit: < jandegr> tried transparent image ?
18:57 #navit: < jandegr> with just a rectangle border ?
18:58 #navit: < Mineque> havent tried because  i want different sizes
18:58 #navit: < Mineque> honestly i need totally transparent button above other item
18:58 #navit: < Mineque> no text, no borded, no bg
18:59 #navit: < Mineque> using bgcolor just for testing position
19:07 #navit: < jandegr> or set onclick = zoomin on other item ?
19:08 #navit: < Mineque> jandegr, i want to use single bg image with all buttons on it because of transparency alpha channel issue
19:08 #navit: < Mineque> and add above transparent area so buttons be clickable
19:09 #navit: < bafplus> Leave out the osd_configuration="1" (i guess u want to show it always...) ans add type="button"
19:11 #navit: < bafplus> Ans delete the image=""
19:11 #navit: < Mineque> bafplus, you're right
19:11 #navit: < Mineque> but
19:11 #navit: < Mineque> it's not the point
19:11 #navit: < Mineque> it doesnt work
19:12 #navit: < Mineque> i need to paste some old version
19:12 #navit: < Mineque> with that doesnt work either
19:12 #navit: < Mineque> hmm
19:12 #navit: < Mineque> ok figured it out
19:12 #navit: < Mineque> <osd enabled="yes" type="button"  x="718" y="230" w="100" h="100" command="zoom_in()" background_color="#000000c8" src=""/>
19:13 #navit: < bafplus> i was just gonna give yoy that exact line...
19:13 #navit: < bafplus> the "trick" is the type="button" and src=""
19:14 #navit: < Mineque> bafplus, i dont know when it dissapeard
19:14 #navit: < Mineque> ;/
19:15 #navit: < Mineque> but
19:15 #navit: < Mineque> i see other issue
19:15 #navit: < Mineque> backgroud color doesnt work for button
19:15 #navit: < Mineque> it is always transparent
19:15 #navit: < Mineque> background_color="#1b0877cc"
19:15 #navit: < Mineque> works, but shows nothing
19:16 #navit: < Mineque> so we can even leave it without background_color="#1b0877cc"
19:16 #navit: < Mineque> and will work
19:16 #navit: < Mineque> bafplus, where you are i'll send beer ;P
19:17 #navit: < bafplus> Just got it...thanks ;-)
19:18 #navit: < bafplus> If you want a background you first have to make a rectangle "text" osd item en then the button osd item over it
19:18 #navit: < Mineque> i dont need ;)
19:19 #navit: < bafplus> maybe an idea to add this code to the wiki...
19:19 #navit: < bafplus> for future referance ;-)
19:21 #navit: < Mineque> i can add if you dont want :)
19:22 #navit: < bafplus> be my guest
19:23 #navit: < tryagain_> btw iirc we have now state info on us towns. can anybody confirm?
19:24 #navit: < bafplus> sorry, no map...
19:25 #navit: < bafplus> mineque, btw...mind that you don't "tap" to fast, if double tapt to fast you end up in the menu (click on map)
19:26 #navit: < Mineque> yep
19:26 #navit: < bafplus> it takes 0,5-1 second to rerender after pressing the button
19:27 #navit: < bafplus> atleast...it does on win32 ;-)
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19:49 #navit: < Mineque> oh
19:49 #navit: < Mineque> another bug
19:50 #navit: < Mineque> i guess i already ticketed it
19:51 #navit: < Mineque> if in text item label="" and there is bg_color defined bg will be always
19:51 #navit: < Mineque> white
19:51 #navit: < Mineque> not matter what you enter
19:51 #navit: < Mineque> but adding space make background_color working
19:54 #navit: < hoschi> heyho, i got the diff, sry i am late. Family things...
19:54 #navit: < hoschi> http://pastebin.com/LFCRiAx5
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19:55 #navit: < hoschi> there is also the bidirectional search so dont be shocked...
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19:57 #navit: < hoschi> the error occures in route_graph_build_multithreaded() within  the first for(;;) loops in the while(item_coord_get(item, c_copy, 1)) call.
19:58 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, i guess you're not answering me?
19:58 #navit: < hoschi> in the 256/257 iteration of the for loop, the while(item_coord_get(item, c_copy, 1)) call rises an "exception" and i dont think its my code but iam unsure
19:59 #navit: < hoschi> Mineque, sry no its for tryagain
19:59 #navit: < Mineque> ok sure :)
20:01 #navit: < hoschi> good night, bye
20:01 #navit: < Mineque> hoschi, bye
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20:24 #navit: < Mineque> i dont get it :/
20:24 #navit: < Mineque> zoom in works zoom out no
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20:38 #navit: < Mineque> i'm idiot dont listen
20:38 #navit: < Mineque> forget src
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21:00 #navit: < tryagain> hoschi you can't just copy attr which you've got from the map, use attr_dup for that.
21:01 #navit: < tryagain> but this is not the case probably
21:05 #navit: < tryagain> your code also is not very efficient in memory usage (you're holding  each coordinate in separate list element), but it also shouldn't run out of memory after 22k coords read.
21:05 #navit: < tryagain> so no idea for now...
21:08 #navit: < tryagain> will try compiling it tomorrow
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21:50 #navit: < Mineque> good night
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 25 00:00:41 2014