--- Log opened Wed Nov 18 00:00:42 2015
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13:53 #navit: < tryagain> hey jandegr
13:56 #navit: < jandegr> hi tryagain
13:56 #navit: < tryagain> how are you doing?
13:57 #navit: < jandegr> I am ok thanks, despite living close to paris.. how'r u ?
13:58 #navit: < tryagain> well we here in Russia seem to be going to close the doors. otherwise everything is well...
13:58 #navit: < tryagain> actually we have some android 4.4+ problem
13:58 #navit: < tryagain> it's related to sdcard access api change
13:59 #navit: < tryagain> there seems to be no way to write to a generic file on sdcard on android 4.4
13:59 #navit: < tryagain> only to a file in a special location, which is cleaned up on app uninstallation
14:00 #navit: < jandegr> yes, that is the new way to go
14:00 #navit: < jandegr> finally things get cleaned when you uninstall an app
14:01 #navit: < jandegr> done with those that just fill up your storage and don't clean when they are uninstalled
14:01 #navit: < tryagain> on lollipop there's a way to write to a generic file tho
14:02 #navit: < jandegr> normally you still can on any api
14:02 #navit: < tryagain> but app should ask user for permission
14:02 #navit: < jandegr> just requires permission, where usage of the special location does not require permission
14:03 #navit: < tryagain> no, native code does not write. there's a new api on lollipop
14:04 #navit: < tryagain> do you have time to dive into that complexities? I think we should give users some prepared path variants on 4.4+ devices
14:05 #navit: < tryagain> maybe add getExternalFilesDirs() results to the list of files in our FileBrowserActivity
14:06 #navit: < jandegr> since I did something for the choosable location of maps , I did not look into those matters anymore, so I would have to refresh my memory a bit
14:08 #navit: < tryagain> iirc choosable map location was completely your solution with little changes from my side
14:08 #navit: < jandegr> but months ago iirc :)
14:09 #navit: < tryagain> yep
14:09 #navit: < jandegr> so if I understand correct the problem is when you want to write from within the C code ?
14:12 #navit: < tryagain> not only. On 4.4., there's no way to write to your /exstsd/navit. At all. Period. But we can write to something like /extsd/Android/org.navitproject.navit even without external storage write permission
14:13 #navit: < tryagain> that path i believe is returned as a second item of getExternalFilesDirs() activity
14:13 #navit: < jandegr> IMHO using those dedicated paths is the future,
14:13 #navit: < tryagain> s/activity/result list/
14:13 #navit: < jandegr> and fall back to the old way on pre 4.4 api's
14:14 #navit: < tryagain> agree, it sounds like an android way to go
14:14 #navit: < tryagain> but we should still let user to choose what path they want, internal or external
14:14 #navit: < jandegr> and IMHO if you move the app from internal to SD, I think it will move the data with it as well :)
14:16 #navit: < tryagain> i would not be so sure. Because /sdcard is considered external storage too. Just not removable. I'm even unsure where would go the app when you move it to sdcard: to the /sdcard or /extsd :)
14:17 #navit: < jandegr> hold on, I will try it, 10 minutes or so ...
14:20 #navit: < tryagain> ah, external data wouldn't move. getExternalFilesDirs() returns path on its internal sdcard as first element, and path on external sdcard as a second. That does not depend on where the app resides. http://developer.android.com/reference/android/support/v4/content/ContextCompat.html#getExternalFilesDirs%28android.content.Context,%20java.lang.String%29
14:22 #navit: < jandegr> indeed, does not move if the app is moved
14:23 #navit: < tryagain> and if we eventually get rid of our FileBrowserActivity, we would not be able to use USB for the map storage
14:23 #navit: < tryagain> "External storage devices returned here are considered a permanent part of the device, including both emulated external storage and physical media slots, such as SD cards in a battery compartment. The returned paths do not include transient devices, such as USB flash drives. "
14:25 #navit: < tryagain> I'm wondering how would be considered sdcard inserted into the side of a tablet with non-removable batterey
14:25 #navit: < tryagain> permanent or transient?
14:25 #navit: < jandegr> permanent
14:26 #navit: < jandegr> untill you unmount it :)
14:26 #navit: < tryagain> why unmount? juts press it and take away ;)
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14:28 #navit: < jandegr> I have a button to unmount it on my tablet, removing it brutally is not liked by android (4.2)
14:31 #navit: < KaZeR> hi there
14:39 #navit: < tryagain> hey KaZeR
14:41 #navit: < tryagain> maybe we need an activity (or additional mode for filebrowser): give user two predefined options and third: choose yourself
14:42 #navit: < jandegr> bonjour kazer
14:42 #navit: < jandegr> but then if map download still works for any location, I don't quite understand the problem
14:43 #navit: < tryagain> it doesn't work on generic location on physical  sd
14:44 #navit: < jandegr> ah, ok, but now I read it says so in the link you posted..
14:45 #navit: < tryagain> http://forum.navit-project.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=564&hilit=android+map
14:45 #navit: < jandegr> Write access outside of these paths on secondary external storage devices is not available
14:45 #navit: < tryagain> but there's an option on Android 5+
14:47 #navit: < jandegr> but then it makes sense to me, do we want apps that can write wherever they please ?
14:48 #navit: < tryagain> there's a brand new system file selection dialog on Lollipop. And it's user discretion to allow given app to write to a given dir and its subdirs
14:52 #navit: < tryagain> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/content/Intent.html#ACTION_OPEN_DOCUMENT_TREE
14:57 #navit: < tryagain> though using that api would require some refactoring: we have a few open()s and fopen()s in different modules. We would have to move them all to a single place to make android-specific preparations.
14:58 #navit: < tryagain> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26744842/how-to-use-the-new-sd-card-access-api-presented-for-lollipop/26765884#26765884
14:58 #navit: < jandegr> have you tried building on api > 19 ?
14:59 #navit: < jandegr> I have and it is no coincidence that circle builds for 19
15:01 #navit: < jandegr> IMHO before that is fixed, it is trivial to discuss api >= 21 novelties
15:01 #navit: < jandegr> FYI, step 1 : disable maptool build on Android, then workaround some stpcpy issue
15:02 #navit: < jandegr> and then some small stuff in the android code
15:02 #navit: < jandegr> and then my build was not downwards compatible, could only run on >= 21
15:02 #navit: < jandegr> correction, could not run on <= 21
15:03 #navit: < jandegr> hmm < 21
15:03 #navit: < tryagain> :)
15:04 #navit: < tryagain> can you share your changed code?
15:05 #navit: < jandegr> but you can build native with nkd api 19 and android/java whith a higer api, no problem, but requires some change in the cmake related stuff
15:07 #navit: < jandegr> I ditched the workaroung for 21 since I thought the problem with the conflict because of stpcpy was more your specialty :)
15:09 #navit: < jandegr> or is it other code u want ?
15:14 #navit: < tryagain> hm, sdk and ndk imho are different entities, and there's no requirement to match them
15:16 #navit: < jandegr> no, indeed, but the build now takes the same for both, so requires a change if you want to differentiate them
15:22 #navit: < tryagain> hm, ndk version seems to be hardcoded separately https://github.com/navit-gps/navit/blob/trunk/ci/build_android.sh#L13
15:25 #navit: < tryagain> ah, Toolchains/arm-eabi.cmake seems to do some magic connecting sdk and ndk versions...
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15:45 #navit: < tryagain> jandegr why don't we just set ndk platform version to min sdk value? Why do we set it to target sdk version?
15:49 #navit: < tryagain> ah, http://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis.html#mnu (a few lines above "Each new release of NDK headers and libraries for a given Android API level is cumulative; you are nearly always safe if you use the most recently released headers when building your app. For example, you can use the NDK headers for Android API level 21 for an app targeting API level 16. By doing so, however, you increase your APK's footprint.")
15:50 #navit: < tryagain> it looks like i have to try to build it myself for android 21
15:55 #navit:  * tryagain scratches his head
15:55 #navit: < tryagain> we already have circleci builds for target sdk 21 don't we?
15:57 #navit: < tryagain> ah, we don't
16:01 #navit: < jandegr> have to go now, but I'm sure you can fix the problem with stpcpy once and for ever, and then you can build for whatever api you want.
16:01 #navit: < jandegr> bye
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16:05 #navit: < circleci-bot> Failed: mdankov's build (#726; push) in navit-gps/navit (tryagain-android21) -- https://circleci.com/gh/navit-gps/navit/726
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16:57 #navit: < circleci-bot> Failed: mdankov's build (#727; ssh by mdankov) in navit-gps/navit (tryagain-android21) -- https://circleci.com/gh/navit-gps/navit/727
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17:34 #navit: < circleci-bot> Failed: mdankov's build (#728; ssh by mdankov) in navit-gps/navit (tryagain-android21) -- https://circleci.com/gh/navit-gps/navit/728
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17:49 #navit: < circleci-bot> Fixed: mdankov's build (#729; push) in navit-gps/navit (tryagain-android21) -- https://circleci.com/gh/navit-gps/navit/729
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17:59 #navit: < tryagain> \o/
18:00 #navit: < tryagain> jandegr we have another place where API version is defined, https://github.com/navit-gps/navit/blob/tryagain-android21/Toolchain/arm-eabi.cmake#L4
18:04 #navit: < tryagain> that version is used to determine if we have stpcpy, for version 8 result is negative. So build system prepares to define its own stpcpy. But then we switch to the level defined in  android_build.sh. At level 21, we already have that function. So build fails due to conflicting  definitions.
18:06 #navit: < tryagain> We have to define that parameter in a single place. Maybe some default should be left in toolchain file, and then redefined in the build scriipt.
18:13 #navit: < tryagain> but note, it's possible to have no corresponding NDK platform for some SDK versions, see table http://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis.html
18:13 #navit: < tryagain> so it should be possible to tune these levels individually
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 19 00:00:43 2015