--- Log opened Thu Jun 16 00:00:57 2016 01:38 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@118-166-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #navit 02:29 -!- Robotaxi [3ef5dbf5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.245.219.245] has joined #navit 02:52 -!- jjelen [jjelen@nat/redhat/x-crvsjglitajdorey] has joined #navit 09:16 -!- jjelen [jjelen@nat/redhat/x-crvsjglitajdorey] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:28 -!- jjelen [jjelen@nat/redhat/x-ohndxzixgystvzqs] has joined #navit 09:33 -!- ColdFyre [~lenny@c-71-231-174-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:35 -!- ColdFyre [~lenny@c-71-231-174-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #navit 09:36 -!- jjelen [jjelen@nat/redhat/x-ohndxzixgystvzqs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:39 -!- robertp [5cd0a4a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.208.164.169] has joined #navit 11:39 -!- zoff99 [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/zoff99] has joined #navit 11:51 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@118-166-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:12 -!- Robotaxi [3ef5dbf5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.245.219.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:32 -!- zoff99 [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/zoff99] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.1/20090707221522]] 12:59 -!- jandegr [51f2c815@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.242.200.21] has joined #navit 13:13 -!- asdfgafdsg [40c9fc84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.201.252.132] has joined #navit 13:13 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@118-166-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #navit 13:13 -!- asdfgafdsg [40c9fc84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.201.252.132] has quit [Client Quit] 13:29 -!- jandegr [51f2c815@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.242.200.21] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:58 -!- j_f-f [~quassel@rs-6.jff-webhosting.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01 -!- j_f-f [~quassel@rs-6.jff-webhosting.net] has joined #navit 15:03 -!- j_f-f [~quassel@rs-6.jff-webhosting.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06 -!- j_f-f [~quassel@rs-6.jff-webhosting.net] has joined #navit 17:27 -!- kazer [~kazer@2601:643:8104:ba60:eea8:6bff:fef8:449] has joined #navit 17:28 #navit: < kazer> hi there 17:57 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@118-166-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59 #navit: < robertp> hi Kazer 18:03 #navit: < robertp> do we want to fall back to qt4 if qt5 is not available? Or do we want bleeding edge graphics? 18:13 #navit: < kazer> hi robertp 18:13 #navit: < kazer> afaik (while not being an expert) qt4 and qt5 are quite different 18:13 #navit: < kazer> we do have a qt4 poc. 18:13 #navit: < robertp> sure, but we have a preprocessor 18:14 #navit: < kazer> i am not sure that falling back to qt4 would bring any benefit. the qt4 gui isn't functional, and i'm not sure that there is a value backporting whatever we will build using qt5 to qt4 18:14 #navit: < kazer> do you have an example where this would be beneficial? 18:15 #navit: < robertp> Anyway, I am planning to build a gui stub for qt5, because i lack the artist-like skills 18:16 #navit: < robertp> things i do look like 1995's html style. :D 18:22 -!- robertp [5cd0a4a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.208.164.169] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:46 -!- xenos1984 [~xenos1984@118-166-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #navit 18:47 #navit: < kazer> hey xenos1984 18:47 #navit: < xenos1984> hi kazer 18:50 #navit: < kazer> how are you doing xenos1984 ? long time no chat :) 18:51 #navit: < xenos1984> well, mostly busy, but otherwise fine :) i have too much work these days 18:51 #navit: < xenos1984> how about you? 18:59 #navit: < kazer> kind of the same. we have a few cool stuff in the pipe for Navit, but time is a bit lacking. We miss you, man 19:05 #navit: < xenos1984> i haven't really had time programming or even testing navit, but hopefully during summer i can provide a bit more feedback 19:06 #navit: < xenos1984> i bought myself a raspberry pi 3 this week, but i haven't tested it yet (also it has only hdmi out, and i only have a composite in monitor for my car right now) 19:07 #navit: < xenos1984> but hopefully i can use it also with navit in my car 19:07 #navit: < alex___> hi there 19:07 #navit: < kazer> hey alex___ 19:08 #navit: < kazer> xenos1984: oh cool. Raspi 3 is definitely a good platform for a carputer. I'm actually working on upgrading my intel nuc to a raspi3 19:09 #navit: < xenos1984> that also sounds like a nice project 19:09 #navit: < xenos1984> hi alex___ 19:09 #navit: < alex___> still missing time for navit dev. ;( 19:09 #navit: < alex___> hi kazer, hi xenos1984 19:12 #navit: < kazer> xenos1984: getting Navit to work on the pi is easy, but a clean integration in the car is a bit more difficult :) I still have to test the pi foundation display in the car. It's a nice display, but i'm worried about sun glare. We'll see! 19:12 #navit: < kazer> alex___: haha yeah we understand that 19:13 #navit: < alex___> i decide to change a job, last few month i spent a lot of time to get a money from customers for well done job. i hope new position will not waste my time for issues of this kind 19:14 #navit: < xenos1984> kazer: indeed, that's also my main problem - and i also have a camera for the pi, which should take one picture per second and save it to sd card, already geotagged (i have a small python script for that) 19:14 #navit: < alex___> xenos1984 but what to do with rapspi 1 with 256megs of ram ... 19:15 #navit: < xenos1984> alex___: well, for running navit that should be enough 19:16 #navit: < alex___> i think so, but for me there are another problem with carputer - i don't have any ideas where to place 7 inch display in my peugeot 807. 19:18 #navit: < alex___> in the last long travel i used my thinkpad x220 with navit ;) but it wasn't so nice 19:18 #navit: < kazer> xenos1984: we could move that code to a navit plugin. The smartphone market is kinda saturated with gps apps. Our UI sucks and does not help us win shares. I believe that DYI carputers, pi powered are a good source of users for us 19:19 #navit: < kazer> alex___: i tried the raspi 1 a while back as a carputer, and it was not so great. gps + music would make it laggy. Raspi2 addressed this though 19:19 #navit: < alex___> kazer but there are lack of smartphone offline navi apps , i mean free ones 19:20 #navit: < kazer> alex___: i agree, and we still have a card to play, but we need to improve our user UX. hence the work on the map downloader :) 19:20 #navit: < kazer> alex___: do you have a picture of your dashboard? 19:20 #navit: < xenos1984> kazer: indeed, i also thought of a navit plugin, or even a very simple core function that just calls a shell script on every position update (passing gps coordinates as arguments) would be enough 19:22 #navit: < alex___> http://www.km77.com/marcas/fiat/ulysse_02/gra/03.jpg something like that (fiat ulysse, peugeot 807, citroen c8, lancia phedra is the same car, the difference in exterior) 19:23 #navit: < kazer> xenos1984: i'd be happy to help :) 19:23 #navit: < kazer> alex___: mm indeed not easy to fit a screen there 19:24 #navit: < kazer> my car had a 1.5DIN autoradio, so i had to sacrifice half of the center vents 19:25 #navit: < alex___> http://www.arpem.com/coches/coches/peugeot/807/fotos/2009/peugeot-807-interior.jpg - idea to buy a standard screen for this car and exchange display 19:25 #navit: < xenos1984> kazer: you might want to see (and try, if you have a pi cam) my python script: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:MHohmann/RPiCam 19:25 #navit: < alex___> however this is a rare device 19:25 #navit: < xenos1984> i'll have a look at a potential navit implementation once i have a bit more time, but now i should get some sleep ;) 19:25 #navit: < xenos1984> gn8! 19:25 #navit: < alex___> ok buy 19:26 #navit: < kazer> gn8 xenos1984 come back soon :) 19:26 #navit: < alex___> bye 19:28 #navit: < alex___> well. my current contract is a linux patch development ... in a contract was written about six distros packages ... it's going to build now in VMs , all things works slowly ... 19:29 #navit: < alex___> and now i'm sure - i hate systemd :) 19:29 #navit: < kazer> haha i fell you 19:29 #navit: < kazer> *feel 19:31 #navit: < alex___> btw, i guess mapserver is not enough 19:31 #navit: < kazer> what do you mean? 19:33 #navit: < alex___> for example i was need to find another way , because of road contruction near Espoo , it will be really nice if somebody else (with navit hehe) will be able to point about road construction, traffic jams etc ... 19:34 #navit: < alex___> i.e. to send some information to the server 19:35 #navit: < kazer> oh yeah i definitely agree. we have a very old proof of concept around that, called traffic distortion, but it's only implemented in the GTK ui yet, and there's no sharing between users 19:35 #navit: < kazer> https://github.com/Nimrod007/waze-api might be worth digging too 19:36 #navit: < alex___> this is a modern feature ;) but might be useful. but i'm a little bit paranoic about privacy - all communication must be secure :) 19:37 #navit: < kazer> i agree about that. The issue is that here you have to balance privacy vs accountability.. otherwise it would be easy to send a ton of fake events 19:37 #navit: < kazer> privacy respect is what makes Navit better than the other solutions today :) 19:38 #navit: < alex___> yeah, right. it will be nice to have an option to choose what to share or what to keep in a secret ... and when. 19:39 #navit: < alex___> this is not so easy to implement, but i have an idea already, trying to find a time to implement it and use with mapserver. 19:40 #navit: < kazer> awesome 19:42 #navit: < alex___> my old proposal to use sxmp with mapserver works well, but it has a drawback - very serious one. sxmp using TLSv1.2 as a transport for data streams (download maps for example) and for message passing (take a list of available maps etc ...) 19:44 #navit: < alex___> the client can verify the server via x.509 public key shared to do it so, and the server also able to verify the client via x.509 public key, the problem is - the client certificate i.e. public/private key pair must be signed by the server x.509 one. 19:45 #navit: < alex___> meaning - if you will compromise server certificate you will get an access to other keys and data ... this is not an issue for enterprise systems, but for public service this is a bad thing. 19:47 #navit: < alex___> instead of the current scheme , it's better to generate client private key on the client and approve the server by key fingertip, like this done with SSH2 19:47 #navit: < alex___> and ... TLSv1.2 cannot be used for this cases. 19:48 #navit: < alex___> and x509 is overkill for those purposes anyway 19:49 #navit: < kazer> makes sense, indeed 19:49 #navit: < kazer> is your library able to handle this as of now? 19:50 #navit: < alex___> i designed a new protocol influenced by SSH2 protocol and modern proven ciphers. and moving my library to use this. 19:51 #navit: < alex___> not yet, currently key/ciphers functions under testing, the next step will be quite simple ... the protocol itself. 19:53 #navit: < alex___> also i tuned it, because protocol message is mp message or chunk of the data stream and no gaps with collecting a data from TLS buffers. 19:54 #navit: < alex___> and another advantage - the possibility to use libcrypto only, or other library libgcrypt for example, or some other crypto library used for embedded systems 19:56 #navit: < alex___> actually it's about 40hrs to be done and tested ... 19:59 #navit: < alex___> but .... anyway it will solve a lot of problems under mapserver and future features implementation (i'm planning to implement p2p encryption i.e. server will be like a proxy and will not able to read a traffic between peers - this might be a sell point for navit, because u can use navit to share your location/place of meeting/way with only required persons) 19:59 #navit: < alex___> but p2p encryption planned after mapserver initial implementation and integration 20:03 #navit: < alex___> for now key generation/signing/import/export/verify works, just testing it. the next step is a protocol ie some parsing, encrypt/descrypt (using already proven implementation) and take existing ecdh key exchange implementation. other things is a sugar ;) 20:06 #navit: < alex___> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve_Diffie%E2%80%93Hellman you can find a link to Curve25519 reference implementation - i take this one. 20:09 #navit: < alex___> and ed25519 keys are used, private key might be encrypted by password for those who wants (more paranoic :) ) some ideas was stolen from openssh, as a reference. 20:11 #navit: < alex___> a little secret - i have a friend who works on crypto stuff and able to make a serious review of my design and implementation. 20:12 #navit: < alex___> for free ... for free beer i mean :) 20:14 #navit: < kazer> haha free beer is the bets :) 20:14 #navit: < kazer> best 20:19 #navit: < alex___> yeah, btw he already accept my design and waits for implementation ... or for another free beer who knows 20:19 #navit: < alex___> :) 20:23 #navit: < alex___> btw, that's very cool to have a secure navi app with a lot of networking features. but what about gui? 20:25 #navit: < alex___> i mean who will able to create a gui for those purposes, since not so many people have enough time to spent for navit dev ... it's time to think about it also :) 20:42 #navit: < alex___> 4 of 6 builds complete ... emacs works without freeze 20:58 -!- kazer [~kazer@2601:643:8104:ba60:eea8:6bff:fef8:449] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:10 -!- kazer [~kazer@2601:643:8104:ba60:eea8:6bff:fef8:449] has joined #navit 22:14 #navit: < alex___> time to beer and sleep 22:14 #navit: < alex___> bye bye and see you --- Log closed Fri Jun 17 00:00:59 2016