--- Log opened Wed Jun 22 00:00:06 2016
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07:37 #navit: < Navit> The following compiles failed: http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/android_armv5te/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/src/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/openmoko/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/win32/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/n800/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project
07:37 #navit: < Navit> it-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/android_x86/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/tomtom/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed
07:37 #navit: < Navit> See compile results history at http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/stats.html
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12:45 #navit: < kazer> hi there
12:46 #navit: < kazer> jandegr: https://cloud.kazer.org/index.php/s/m6MZUoMqb1znlWW
12:47 #navit: < jandegr> is that for real kazer ?
12:48 #navit: < kazer> yes it is. It's a screen capture from my jailbroken iphone 4
12:48 #navit: < kazer> i updated the wiki also
12:55 #navit: < jandegr> what ios version does that iphone run ?
12:57 #navit: < kazer> 7.1.2
12:58 #navit: < kazer> i have vnc running on it, and i've used it for some opencv tests in the past. So i can probably write some automation to test navit on it
12:59 #navit: < jandegr> speech did not work I assume ?
13:00 #navit: < kazer> i heard nothing, but i did not dig
13:00 #navit: < kazer> the most annoying part right now is that search does not work, it crashes navit
13:02 #navit: < jandegr> IMHO the next step could be to test older versions to see if it is a regression or it has always crashed with search
13:06 #navit: < kazer> at first i was running with an old map (apr 2015) so i thought it would be related to that. Then I updated the map and still had the issue. I'll try to downgrade
13:06 #navit: < kazer> but if i downgrade i might need an older map..
13:08 #navit: < jandegr> if you have an apr 2015 map you can try with an april 2015 navit I suppose
13:08 #navit: < kazer> i deleted the map on the phone yesterday. I'll have to check my dev machine
13:26 #navit: < kazer> on an unrelated topic : i'm having issues replaying a log file. Anyone used that feature recently? I'm getting "error:navit:tracking_update:failed to get position data 1 1 1 0"
13:28 #navit: < jandegr> I have never used replay log file
13:30 #navit: < kazer> ok thanks.
14:07 #navit: < kazer> so, same issues with 5997 (fullscreen crash and search crash)
14:17 #navit: < jandegr> do you have access to the log ?
14:18 #navit: < kazer> i need to find where it's hidden, if it's written
14:30 #navit: < kazer> i don't think that a log is written as of now
14:39 #navit: < jandegr> either I did not look good, or https://github.com/navit-gps/navit/blob/trunk/navit/graphics/cocoa/graphics_cocoa.m does not implement fullscreen
14:39 #navit: < jandegr> at least not in a way as graphics_android does
14:45 #navit: < kazer> that could explain it, indeed. good catch. I am planning to change some stuffs in the iphone xml ( the map path does not match what was in the wiki for example, the pitch value isn't great either) so i'll also disable the fullscreen button for now
15:03 #navit: < jandegr> https://github.com/navit-gps/navit/blob/trunk/navit/gui/internal/gui_internal_search.c#L511
15:04 #navit: < jandegr> if you can use the rest of gui internal, then maybe smth. with country could be the issue ?
15:04 #navit: < kazer> ah, you did not read my wiki update :)
15:05 #navit: < kazer> yeah my locale is defined to LANG=(null)
15:11 #navit: < jandegr> hmm, you think that could make search crash right away ?
15:12 #navit: < kazer> iirc, locale is used for two things : the keyboard, and the initial country to search from. I tried disabled the keyboard, did not help. So it's probably the initial country that crashes..
15:15 #navit: < kazer> what do you see on the tools/show locale menu on your android?
15:19 #navit: < jandegr> LANG=nl_BE(1=1 2=2)
15:21 #navit: < kazer> mmm. looks like we might need a workaround for ios too then
16:08 #navit: < jandegr> last ipa built is 5532 , you can consider all later commits as 'untested on iOS'
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16:40 #navit: < kazer> hey robertp
16:40 #navit: < robertp> hi
16:41 #navit: < kazer> jandegr: i will try 5254
16:43 #navit: < xenos1984> hi kazer
16:46 #navit: < kazer> hey xenos1984 !
16:46 #navit: < kazer> xenos1984: did you get a chance to look at the new website proposal?
16:48 #navit: < xenos1984> kazer: yes, i looked at the website you asked me about yesterday - personally, i'm not a fan of such websites where everything is on one long page, with tons of javascript and fancy animations and the like without any actual need for such active content. i very much prefer simple and plain html websites (unless active content is really necessary), with some nice css styles, and things that constitute different topics on subpages.
16:52 #navit: < kazer> jandegr: interesting. With locale=null, 5254 does not crash.
16:53 #navit: < kazer> xenos1984: it makes total sense. I am usually not a fan of these all-in-one website either. Unfortunately, it's hard to find someone that will design something else nowadays
16:53 #navit: < kazer> i really think that the current website needs an upgrade
16:53 #navit: < jandegr> so you can ditch your carputer now in favor of your iphone :)
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16:56 #navit: < xenos1984> kazer: yes, some upgrade would be nice, in the sense of more content, updated links and so on, maybe also some css tuning, but otherwise i would keep the original format - it gives a rather nice overview
16:58 #navit: < kazer> thanks xenos1984
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16:58 #navit: < kazer> it's good to see you around. how have you been?
16:59 #navit: < xenos1984> kazer: you're welcome! if you need a hand with the website, just let me know, i have some html / css experience
17:00 #navit: < xenos1984> well, very busy in the last months... since february i'm leading a research group at my university and than brings lots of administrative work, such as hiring new members, dealing with financing and so on
17:12 #navit: < kazer> oh wow congrats :) what's the topic of your research?
17:14 #navit: < xenos1984> kazer: thanks :) modified theories of gravity and extensions to general relativity
17:16 #navit: < kazer> i did not know that you were in the physics field. Nice!
17:22 #navit: < xenos1984> oh, i guess we never talked about it then :D
17:22 #navit: < kazer> indeed :)
17:23 #navit: < kazer> re: the website, yeah help is definitely needed. This has been in discussion for over a year now.
17:24 #navit: < xenos1984> ah, i see, quite a while
17:27 #navit: < kazer> yes. almost like moving some services like wiki/forums out of the old server, which is becoming too slow
17:57 #navit: < xenos1984> indeed, and it also seems to have low memory
17:58 #navit: < kazer> you have access to shell?
18:00 #navit: < xenos1984> yes
18:00 #navit: < kazer> cool. do you know about our DNS service?
18:01 #navit: < kazer> one of the last steps required to move wiki and forum out of the old server is to update dns settings
18:04 #navit: < xenos1984> hm... not really
18:05 #navit: < xenos1984> i've never done anything related to that (and i guess it would need root access)
18:08 #navit: < kazer> oh, i thought that you had root access
18:15 #navit: < xenos1984> unfortunately not, just normal user
18:20 #navit: < kazer> that's something that we can fix on the new server, if you want. Help is definitely welcome :)
18:31 #navit: < xenos1984> if i can provide some help, sure :)
18:31 #navit: < xenos1984> i should go to bed now, good night!
18:35 #navit: < kazer> talk to you soon!
18:35 #navit: < kazer> ping me when we can discuss this more
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18:46 #navit: < alex___> hi there
18:46 #navit: < kazer> hey alex___
18:49 #navit: < alex___> my blackberry died today 2.5 years constantly running ... em, btw dev process is going
18:49 #navit: < kazer> constantly running? 2.5y, i'd say not too bad.
18:50 #navit: < kazer> cool about the dev! i think that it should soon be time to discuss the approach. Our own history has proven us that it's bad to have only one person knowing about a specific topic
18:50 #navit: < alex___> volume keys doesn't works and power controller malfunction, and battery
18:52 #navit: < alex___> yep, do u suggest to use something else ?
18:53 #navit: < kazer> no no, i am not saying that i have issues with your approach. i just want to discuss how it's done and why, just to provide some peer-reviewing, and ensure that this code will be maintenable if you disapear :)
18:54 #navit: < alex___> got it, actually i want to tell you more about it
18:56 #navit: < alex___> and - there are manpages for API :) i spent some time for documentation. also, my lib already used and sometimes i'm getting some €€ to support it/fix something from those who use it. currently there are a problem with x509 key generation and exchange, but solution already on the go.
18:58 #navit: < kazer> cool :)
18:59 #navit: < alex___> but - from technical side there are nothing tricky stuff. the main idea was to provide secure way to pass a messages (and later a data) between server and client, during the development process a few additional libraries came
19:00 #navit: < alex___> one of them designed to be a great helper to rapidly deploy a server and concetrate on the actual development.
19:02 #navit: < alex___> btw, i'm trying to document all (actually this is a process of brain dump and copy from papers ;) )
19:08 #navit: < kazer> one of the things i wanted to discuss was performances when updating a map. This is probably the trickiest part. What's your suggestion regarding this?
19:09 #navit: < alex___> what kind of updating do you mean ? update from osm (mapserver side), update on navit from mapserver ?
19:11 #navit: < kazer> i think that the best option would be to update from navit from the mapserver
19:12 #navit: < alex___> as i told you before, firstly i want to implement the same feature as it's done in osmand i.e. download map of the predefined region (country, state etc ...) and take a control to be up-to-date
19:12 #navit: < kazer> "take a control to be up-to-date " ?
19:12 #navit: < alex___> regions has version/date data
19:12 #navit: < alex___> well
19:13 #navit: < alex___> mapserver takes the map data from osm
19:13 #navit: < alex___> navit takes prepared maps from mapserver
19:13 #navit: < kazer> one of the idea i've been toying with was to use a field in the map to be able to identify it (e.g. build time). then copy the local map to a temp map, and fetch a binary diff that we would apply the the copied map. After checking the checksum, we would overwrite the map with the patched map. What do you think?
19:14 #navit: < alex___> that's too tricky and may cause bugs
19:14 #navit: < alex___> binary diffs ... no no no :)
19:14 #navit: < kazer> the issue is that we have so many tiles that updating the tiles in the archive takes a shitload of time
19:16 #navit: < alex___> hm, take a look for osmand - they have a many regions (not square tiles) and you can get region, check for update for this region etc ...
19:17 #navit: < alex___> i've played already with navit map format - there are not so big assuming my protocol use compression to tranfsfre the data and maps also can be compressed.
19:17 #navit: < alex___> *transfer
19:19 #navit: < alex___> i guess when u have a binary file contantly updated there are no sense to make diffs with that
19:20 #navit: < alex___> from my point of view it's better to have mapcatalog (i.e. a regions tree/list) with version info and in case of update navit will take already prepared compressed region map
19:21 #navit: < kazer> it's fine if you do this over wifi. Fetching an update in my car is done only via GSM, and it's ~500MB each time
19:22 #navit: < alex___> 500mb too much ....
19:23 #navit: < kazer> yes, so that's why i'd love to have incremental updates :)
19:23 #navit: < alex___> i got map sizes nearly equal to ones on nokia navigation sw and osmand, didn't find 500mb maps
19:25 #navit: < kazer> California alone is 431MB
19:25 #navit: < alex___> the problem of binary format - you will have too many deltas in different places and u may get 350mb diffs.
19:26 #navit: < alex___> for this purpose mapserver can also contain xml-like format (as it goes from osm) and distribute diffs for it, on navit side u can apply diff and convert to navit format
19:27 #navit: < kazer> which is close to what we do on the map server to fetch updates from OSM
19:27 #navit: < alex___> which exactly is
19:28 #navit: < alex___> but u may have two options - use already prepared maps, or tricky deltas updates
19:31 #navit: < alex___> but binary diffs ... in text file u have a lines ... in binary .. compare and account difference by pages ? it looks like distributed shared mem :)
19:32 #navit: < alex___> it also possible - i.e. just sync a memory map, and take updated pages from server.
19:33 #navit: < alex___> i.e. navit will "mmap" region and update it when it required
19:35 #navit: < alex___> that's cool and tricky, and looks light from sw architecture side, but ... do u think this is overkill ?
19:37 #navit: < kazer> especially for embedded devices. But I liked the ideas behind https://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/courgette/
19:37 #navit: < kazer> ( http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette )
19:39 #navit: < alex___> eemm
19:39 #navit: < alex___> we can use bsdiff
19:39 #navit: < alex___> but map isn't executable
19:40 #navit: < kazer> well, is that an issue with bsdiff? we should be able to patch arbitrary content no?
19:41 #navit: < alex___> btw, to have a memmap for 500Mb u need about 1mb extra.
19:41 #navit: < alex___> well
19:41 #navit: < alex___> we can used bsdiff
19:41 #navit: < alex___> *use
19:42 #navit: < alex___> there are no issues for that
19:44 #navit: < alex___> it's quite simple compare it with "shared maps" idea
19:45 #navit: < alex___> but for our purpose another approach might be used
19:46 #navit: < kazer> have to go afk 1h
19:47 #navit: < alex___> transactions set updates i.e. a list of (offset, length, <data>) list ...
19:48 #navit: < alex___> each transaction set will have a generation number , on navit ur region also has last transaction set applied gen id ...
19:48 #navit: < alex___> i guess playing with that we can reach the same result. and there are a better way because u can additionally sign transaction set
19:48 #navit: < alex___> ok
19:49 #navit: < alex___> tell what u think about that
19:51 #navit: < alex___> but that's only about maps ...
19:51 #navit: < alex___> maps is just beginning
20:43 #navit: < alex___> bsdiff designed for executables also
20:48 #navit: < Navit> The following compiles failed: http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/android_armv5te/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/src/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/openmoko/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/win32/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/n800/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project
20:48 #navit: < Navit> it-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/android_x86/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/tomtom/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed
20:48 #navit: < Navit> See compile results history at http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/stats.html
21:48 #navit: < Navit> The following compiles failed: http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/android_armv5te/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/src/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/openmoko/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/win32/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/n800/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project
21:48 #navit: < Navit> it-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/android_x86/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/tomtom/svn/navit-svn-6683.failed
21:48 #navit: < Navit> See compile results history at http://download.navit-project.org/logs/navit/stats.html
--- Log closed Thu Jun 23 00:00:08 2016